Tuesday, April 1 ’Üí
Mar 31 | 12:05 AM |
Francois L. | has entered the room |
Francois L. | has left the room |
Francois L. | has entered the room |
Francois L. | has left the room |
Mar 31 | 7:00 AM |
Bill S. | has entered the room |
Mar 31 | 7:30 AM |
judi | has entered the room |
judi | Good morning Bill |
Mar 31 | 7:35 AM |
Nicholas G. | has entered the room |
Nicholas G. | good morning Judi - |
Nicholas G. | this works well enough |
judi | Hi Nicholas. The chat works well enough? |
judi | have you checked out the QT broadcast yet? |
Nicholas G. | it does - testing - |
Nicholas G. | still twiddling with it - |
judi | I just started a test broadcast (setting up) |
Mar 31 | 7:40 AM |
Nicholas G. | so far I'm just getting a a "not found" message |
Nicholas G. | but I am on a dubious hotel connection BTGW |
Nicholas G. | BTW |
judi | oops, my fault. sorry. try now |
Nicholas G. | streaming in sans hitch - |
Nicholas G. | thanks Judi |
Nicholas G. | NRG |
judi | thx! |
Mar 31 | 7:55 AM |
Nicholas G. | has left the room |
Matt T. | has entered the room |
Mar 31 | 8:00 AM |
Matt T. | Hello all! |
broadcast | has entered the room |
Mar 31 | 8:05 AM |
Brough T. | has entered the room |
broadcast | open from Quicktime, FILE -> Open URL: stream: rtsp://harmony.law.harvard.edu/f2c.sdp |
Mar 31 | 8:10 AM |
broadcast | Matt: please help David get the on-stage monitor working with chat? |
Matt T. | ok, I will |
broadcast | thx |
stage | has entered the room |
Mar 31 | 8:15 AM |
matthew b. | has entered the room |
Mar 31 | 8:20 AM |
Aaron S. | has entered the room |
Mar 31 | 8:25 AM |
Michael W. | has entered the room |
judi | video stream going offline temporarily, will be back in a moment |
Mar 31 | 8:30 AM |
Tony A. | has entered the room |
Jim R. | has entered the room |
Chris S. | has entered the room |
Mar 31 | 8:35 AM |
Aleecia M. | has entered the room |
Chris R. | has entered the room |
Suw C. | has entered the room |
Gregory M. | has entered the room |
stage | text size OK? |
Aleecia M. | beautiful |
Gregory M. | nicel done Howard & Chris |
Mar 31 | 8:40 AM |
Micah S. | has entered the room |
Steven C. | has entered the room |
Heath R. | has entered the room |
Iz W. | has entered the room |
Francois L. | has entered the room |
Iz W. | judi's haircut is rockin' |
Chris S. | Or comcast |
Mar 31 | 8:45 AM |
Matt T. | Video broadcast- rtsp://harmony.law.harvard.edu/f2c.sdp |
Jim R. | has left the room |
Jim R. | has entered the room |
shep | has entered the room |
alex i. | has entered the room |
Brett G. | has entered the room |
Brett G. | G'mornin'! (Stretching) |
Chris M. | has entered the room |
Mar 31 | 8:50 AM |
Brett G. | AT&T = Slime mold |
Ron S. | has entered the room |
Brett G. | (Divided to get past an obstacle) |
Brett G. | (The obstacle being regulation) |
alex i. | I think there was a manifesto in here somewhere |
Izumi A. | has entered the room |
alex i. | neocons love monopolies, even hazlett |
Micah S. | neo e-cons, nice term! |
Brett G. | The "invisible hand" is very effective at delivering wedgies |
Iz W. | cute brett |
Ken D. | has entered the room |
Steven C. | has left the room |
alex i. | hi iz, you logging on from home? |
Mar 31 | 8:55 AM |
Ken D. | Brett, I think you owe an apology to slime mold everywhere. |
Brett G. | Is there a fungus amongus? |
shep | without any EDFAs? |
Stig H. | has entered the room |
Heath R. | Humongous fungus among us |
Steven C. | has entered the room |
Iz W. | alex I'm in the front row |
Iz W. | 2nd front |
Shawn C. | has entered the room |
Brett G. | That's not the big problem. The problem is that it's hard to tap into that fiber. |
Chris S. | Thankfully, you don't get searched by TSA to get online. |
Greg E. | has entered the room |
alex i. | pickles and ice cream |
Brett G. | No, but CALEA means that you can always be pulled aside for a search. Only you won't know you'll being searched. |
Brad T. | has entered the room |
Ken D. | Alex, are you pregnant? |
shep | ...
actually, the existence of The Net actually stimulates more travel then
there would otherwise be, because people get to know people who are
distant and then wind up traveling because they want to meet these
people face-to-face. F2C is an example of this. |
alex i. | not me |
Iz W. | alex :-) |
Michael W. | I took the metro here |
Mar 31 | 9:00 AM |
Micah S. | "Benkler-style": not two words you often see used side-by-side |
Mar 31 | 9:00 AM |
FACO | has entered the room |
alex i. | ken u still buidling rural MD networks? |
Ken D. | No, designing ultra high speed wireless infrastructure equipment. |
alex i. | Gbps! |
Brett G. | The trick is getting the spectrum. |
Ken D. | Not quite, 400Mbps/400Mbps down per node on a layer 2 switched network |
Ken D. | er 400Mbps up./400Mbps down |
Ken D. | aggregate |
Brett G. | Possible, but only if you have about a gigahertz of spectrum and/or are allowed very high power levels. |
matthew b. | |
Iz W. | lovely music |
Ken D. | That would suppose that one would need long links, we don't. |
Ken D. | This is designed to deal with densely populated urban environments, think Bombay. |
Sascha M. | has entered the room |
Iz W. | "as the brain decays the music stays" - something to live by? |
Matt T. | i hope |
Mar 31 | 9:05 AM |
Ken D. | Good, that would be one of the things I would hope to be able to continue to enjoy, just after loved ones. |
Brett G. | Susan: You're denying my existence! |
RJA | has entered the room |
Ken D. | Alex, your namesake would say hello, if he could speak. |
Ken D. | ;-) |
Brett G. | We and other WISPs compete very gamely with cable companies and telcos. We don't do "buncles" and we don't have market power. |
alex i. | :-) |
Brett G. | There are between 4000 and 8000 small, independent ISPs |
alex i. | we need antitrust that works |
Paul B. | has entered the room |
Brough T. | has left the room |
Ken D. | The information I am seeing suggests that we are now below 2000 ISPs/WISPs |
Ken D. | That 8,00 number is one of Marlon's assertions. |
Brett G. | I'm helping people to start more! |
Ken D. | Keep it up! |
Sascha M. | i have the ISP numbers around here somewhere... |
Brett G. | In any event, Internet service is not an oligopoly. However, if we regulate the little guys out of business, it WILL be. |
alex i. | users = http://www.dslreports.com/ |
Mary G. | has entered the room |
Brett G. | I am not here. I do not exist. |
Mar 31 | 9:10 AM |
Sascha M. | and
the numbers are stunning. i'm working on a piece about the fall of us
broadband penetration ranking and the loss of isps -- the correlation
is eyeopening. |
Brett G. | [POOF!] |
Brett G. | <POOF!> |
Ken D. | Brett, you are virtual? |
Sascha M. | |
alex i. | the numbers on subscribers are amazing too |
Sascha M. | those are us census figures. |
alex i. | especially VoIP subscribers -- now dominated by cable |
Brett G. | I'm virtually astonished at the fact that Susan is looking almost right at me and denying that I exist. |
alex i. | sascha, what's the source? |
Ken D. | Seems like the numbers are dropping steadily. |
Sascha M. | View paste
|
Brett G. | If we do the wrong things, they COULD drop to zero. |
Sascha M. | sources are the US census, OECD and ITU. |
Brad T. | has left the room |
Brett G. | Although I don't believe they've dropped as much as Sascha says above. We've gotten new competitors in town over those years. |
Adam M. | has entered the room |
Sascha M. | Brett:
well, could be that the US Census, OECD, and ITU have formed an
international conspiracy to overstate this data... it's their data, not
my own. |
David I. | has entered the room |
Iz W. | yeah brett, I dont think sascha made up those stats |
Ken D. | Sascha, do I detect a note of sarcasm there? |
Ken D. | I may need my sarcasometer calibrated. |
alex i. | I
do think that most official stats ignore very small wireless networks,
< 500 subs, but the telcos aren't worried about them and can destroy
them by building out DSL and cable |
Mar 31 | 9:15 AM |
Brett G. | We
all know that the FCC has recently revised its data collection on
broadband providers because the collection methods came under fire; see
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/atta’Ķ |
Ken D. | The FCC ignores wireless operator below 250 subs, if I recall correctly. |
Ken D. | On the good side we now have the definition of broadband moved up to an increedible 768Kbps |
Brett G. | That would be a terrible mistake. The best providers with the most satisfied customers are small and local. |
Ken D. | I wonder where they got that number from... |
Chris M. | http://www.amazon.com/This-Your-Brain-Musi’Ķ Is Your Brain On Music" _bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206968709&sr=8-1 |
alex i. | and his blog http://ideas.4brad.com |
shep | IIRC, I remember him as the moderator of rec.humor.funny |
alex i. | yes, shep, he was that too. versatile dude |
JoePlotkin | has entered the room |
matthew b. | hey joe |
Iz W. | joe you virtual? |
shep | there's a BitTorrent company? who knew? (i thought it was just an open source bit of software) |
Brett G. | The Internet was a network of servers from the beginning. |
alex i. | no joes here |
Mar 31 | 9:20 AM |
Iz W. | awesome! |
JoePlotkin | Im here |
Tom M. | has entered the room |
shep | "used financed networking" is what I call it |
Brett G. | Middle? Er, I thought it was infallible dogma that it was all ends! |
alex i. | BBS vs ISP |
shep | er, I meant "user-financed networking" |
alex i. | true shep -- original net built by schools govt etc and free to interconnect |
Ken D. | Free? As in beer? |
alex i. | not as in beer |
Chris S. | Years later, there is still no fish-cam business model. |
Greg E. | It was awful -- my experience of the stupid network model. |
alex i. | as
in allowed to ... it _is_ strange -- the peering is very complicated
and I've been covering it for 8 years and i still don't understand it |
Brett G. | Their investment is under water |
Greg E. | fish-cam became YouTube. |
Greg E. | Cost of sending a letter: $0.41. |
Brett G. | Youtank? |
alex i. | Brad fears per-bit (or per-Mbit) pricing |
JoePlotkin | FishTube? |
Doc S. | has entered the room |
Tom M. | GoFish? |
Greg E. | Cost of sending email: $0.00 (individually) |
alex i. | yes isps want to charge |
Brett G. | Oversale is the best way to deliver maximum value |
matthew b. | that psychology of incremental spending doesn't really apply to our power bill |
Chris S. | "up to" 5Mb |
Greg E. | So
people pay hundreds of dollars a year for internet connectivity to send
AS MANY FREE EMAILS THEY WANT. But how many snail mail letters did you
send in the last 12 months? |
Ken D. | Free? As in buy three tires and get the fourth for free? |
Brett G. | Banks oversell too. They don't have enough money on hand to handle a run. |
alex i. | per- GB monthly overcharges |
Jim R. | the all you can eat model. Where they come and tell you that is all you can eat. |
Mar 31 | 9:25 AM |
alex i. | joe what say? bandwidth hogs? |
JoePlotkin | actually wholesale internet access has dropped sooo much why oversell? |
Ken D. | Oh, unlimited - but not that kind of unlimited. |
Brett G. | But they expect you to have the capacity of a normal human. |
David I. | Brett, good observation . . . you think that's why banks need to be regulated? |
Brett G. | That's not why we regulate banks. |
David I. | No? |
DirkvanderW | has entered the room |
JoePlotkin | asymmetric is a sad legacy |
Ken D. | Agreed |
Brett G. | No. When we regulate banks, we actually ENCOURAGE them to tie up their money in such a way that they couldn't handle a run. |
Gregory M. | True, Brett |
Chris S. | Pirates are at the cutting edge. |
Brett G. | P2P is not the best technology at all. (Brad may have his BitTorrent hat on here) |
Chris M. | Banks lend their depositors' money. If they had to keep it all on hand they couldn't lend any. |
Doc S. | FWIW,
we have 2 fiber lines and one HFC (hybrid fiber coax) on the poles in
front of our house, and competition works. We have Verizon FiOS, with
20Mb symmetrial service, and believe me, we use the upstream. Mostly to
back up offsite and upload photos. Not much of a bittorrenter. |
Brett G. | Exactly. And we have lending regulations that require them to lend. |
JoePlotkin | everyone becomes a server |
Doc S. | I'm not saying we should rely only on carriers, btw. Just making a point about the presence of competition. |
Matt T. | its how they actually generate money |
Paul B. | has left the room |
alex i. | the isps I hear from fear video, not P2P |
alex i. | |
Chris M. | No,
they have a business model that requires them to lend, because that's
why they (originally ) went into business. We have regualtion so they
keep enough capital to handle a reasonable demand for cash |
Ken D. | Darn tooting. |
Mike W. | has entered the room |
Chris S. | My BitTorrent use is subsidized by 5 grandmothers paying 49.99 per month to check their email? |
Ken D. | Video is a real problem |
Darcy G. | has entered the room |
JoePlotkin | P2P is a bigger prob for cable - due to network architecture |
Brett G. | There's
no "cognitive dissonance." We tell customers exactly what they are
buying. And residential grade customers are not buying bandwidth for
servers (unlike business customers). |
Ken D. | YouTube will now move to high definition. |
Brett G. | Wireless
is actually less subject to congestion by upsteram traffic than DOCSIS
(cable) because it is neither symmetrical or asymmetrical (it can shift
bandwidth from upstream to downstream at wll). |
Mar 31 | 9:30 AM |
Ken D. | That becomes a problem for the cable company because it eats into their revenue stream - selling video. |
Brett G. | (Sorry for the typos) |
alex i. | but brad isn't that more because of regulatory capture than because of the regs themselves? |
David I. | Big exception -- The Bell System gave the US the Best Telephone System In The World for 60 years!!! |
Gregory M. | Hmm, just wait until we're all using video-messaging. |
judi | View paste
|
David I. | but then technology outran the bell system |
Doc S. | All
sweeping regulations comprehend the current environment, as perceived
at the time. And the perception will, inevitably, be flawed. |
Brett G. | "Ma Bell, don't take my phone... |
Ken D. | Anyone have a spare sarcasometer? I think mine just exploded. |
Brett G. | "I want to lease, don't want to own... |
alex i. | View paste
|
alex i. | |
Brett G. | "Breaking up is hard to do.... |
Mike W. | you guys think small, old |
Mike W. | its IS possible to write rules that contemplate the future |
Mike W. | but who is the constituency to lobby for them? |
Brett G. | Don't throw them in the fiber patch? |
JoePlotkin | Universal service must die! |
Doc S. | Brad's saying exactly what Michael Powell said on this stage two years ago. |
alex i. | |
Doc S. | at this moment, at least. |
Michael S. | has entered the room |
Mike W. | I know Doc. I'm getting nauseous |
Gregory M. | Yes, this does have a de-ja-vue ring to it... |
Chris S. | Did you get Universal Service Funding for your burning man phone booth? |
Brett G. | Our rural wireless carrier CANNOT get Universal Service funds. |
Brett G. | Even though many of our customers use us for VoIP. |
Michael S. | has left the room |
Ryan M. | has entered the room |
Matt T. | did this phone get used by burning man? or did it become something unrelated? |
Mar 31 | 9:35 AM |
Paul B. | has entered the room |
Brett G. | Probably a vehicle for performance art |
alex i. | I know a WISP in colorado who complains that the people in town cannot get USF (town <1000) but the CEO ski shacks get it |
Iz W. | the man called home right before he was burned. |
shep | do you have to do E911 if you are providing free (as in beer) telephones? |
alex i. | burning man phone home |
Matt T. | they may have become scared of it |
Brett G. | What??!!! EFF could have stopped CALEA but allowed it to happen! |
Chris S. | Does Skype have to abide by CALEA? |
alex i. | i think you can put warning label about E911 on VoIP service |
Mike W. | it was a phantom phonebooth |
Brett G. | John Perry Barlow, representing EFF, told Malcolm Wallop not to block the bill |
alex i. | we are 1984 |
Brett G. | So, in a very real sense, EFF was responsible for CALEA |
Paul H. | has entered the room |
Chris S. | Except when the FBI forgets to pay the bills |
Mike W. | what about my shoe-phone? Can I get USF for it? 99? |
Gregory M. | Wonder what JPB would think of Brad's comments.... |
Brett G. | The FBI doesn't pay the bills when they tap an ISP -- only when they tap a telco |
alex i. | _auctions_ are bad |
shep | does Skype have to do E911? |
Brett G. | Auctions are a way to maximize revenue. They are good at that. They are BAD at maximizing utility. |
Mike W. | I want a Skype phone in the shape of a a shoe phone! |
JoePlotkin | spectrum as property rights is anachronism |
Chris S. | Comcast charges $1000 for a wiretap. Surely Comcast is an ISP - http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=9362 |
alex i. | auctions sell spectrum at 10 % of value -- ask calabrese |
alex i. | |
Brett G. | Actually,
it's not an anachronism; it's something NEW. But it is a throwback to
another age in another sense: it's creating feudal baronies. |
Ken D. | Auctions can be defended as fair market value, I would suggest |
Chris S. | It's not illegal if the president does it |
Gregory M. | feudal baronies... now that's an analogy |
Brett G. | There's no "market." There is market failure. |
alex i. | the unitary excutive -- the president is our king |
Mar 31 | 9:40 AM |
DirkvanderW | has left the room |
Mike W. | In the unitary state, there is only one opinion that matters |
Ken D. | You mean you don't sell your service at market rates? |
Mike W. | Welcome to the Feudal State of Amerika |
Ken D. | Are you giving it away for free? |
Brett G. | It's
a very good analogy. Little guys like me are "spectrum serfs" or
"spectrum sharecroppers," because we can NEVER own our own small plot
of spectrum to till. |
Doc S. | I'm blind! |
Iz W. | shep
I have been looking for this online and only find things from 2005 at
the top of the search... looks like they have managed to avoid 911 so
far but that's just from what I read |
alex i. | the decider |
shep | big screen just went dark |
Gregory M. | the analogy works... |
Gregory M. | spectrum sharecroppers is even better |
Ken D. | |
Brett G. | Brad (like Susan) is denying our existence as competition! |
Brett G. | We are not constrained by a lack of fiber |
Gregory M. | clearly there is plenty of fiber |
JoePlotkin | yes we are - weve lost customers to fios |
Doc S. | Glass roots! Has anybody used it yet? |
stage | big screen went to sleep mode |
JoePlotkin | there's no une-fiber |
Chris S. | Wait until the telcos lobby to make neighborhood fiber illegal |
shep | I call this "guerilla fiber runs" |
alex i. | anyone know how to turn off sleep mode on a mac? |
Brett G. | Someone has to pay for running the fiber and maintaining the network. |
Chris S. | Comcast: "we only delay P2P temporarily" |
Iz W. | stage, you need electric sheep screensaver |
matthew b. | if it doesn't wake up upon opening, try closing and re-opening |
Brett G. | Are you going to risk your livelihood on your neighbor's dog not chewing through the neighborhood fiber? |
Gregory M. | "Glass roots" now officially attributed to Doc Searls, 31.March.2008 |
Brett G. | Actually, Comcast was wrong. They didn't delay it at ALL. |
Mar 31 | 9:45 AM |
Adam M. | isn't
saying that the only possible natural monopoly is digging up roads to
install some more fiber an exception that swallows the whole? |
Ken D. | Thank you Brett. |
Doc S. | Brett,
if folks in Laramie started stringing fenceline and curbside fiber on
their own, would you have a problem with that? Or would your business
help? (I admit I don't know enuf about your biz...) |
Ken D. | this stuff isn't free. |
Greg E. | Interesting new P2P development: distributed databases like ThingDB and distributed versioning systems like Mercurial. |
Iz W. | electric sheep screensaver is huge legal bittorrent user - founder Scott Draves coming here tomorrow to demo |
Brett G. | When we started, we considered doing exactly that. We went to wireless because it was much more practical. |
Iz W. | (disclosure he is my client) |
Mike W. | Adam, no. Its not even true... laying fiber under streets is getting cheaper all the time |
Ken D. | Less expensive and faster time to operation |
Chris S. | Comcast: please don't regulate us... |
Brett G. | Fiber is not that cheap. |
Gregory M. | Sly devil... |
Joe C. | has entered the room |
JoePlotkin | coming up on 25 year anniversary of Ma Bell breakup + we need to do it again! |
Ken D. | Mike, and what price would you peg the per mile cost at, including customer splicing. |
Brett G. | Regulating ISPs would annoy Comcast (a little). It could well kill independents like me. |
Iz W. | like boochmooch |
Mike W. | Klopt, Ken |
Iz W. | bookmooch. a p2p book network |
Jim R. | they broke up Ma Bell???? |
scrawford | has entered the room |
JoePlotkin | we need open markets - not unenforceable regs |
Chris S. | Except that Comcast couldn't tell the difference between BitTorrent and Lotus Notes. |
Ken D. | ONce upon a time. |
Ken D. | I was young then |
Brett G. | If you run a lot of fiber, it's about $1K-2K per BLOCK. |
Ken D. | Mike ? |
AKMA | has entered the room |
Mike W. | Don't make me build this thing! But it is much cheaper than say 10 years ago |
alex i. | bye bye american pie the day the bell labs died |
Ken D. | I use the $10k/mile unmber |
Brett G. | I've priced sawing the concrete, burying the fiber, patching the asphalt. |
Doc S. | Sascha
and I (and perhaps a few others here) were just at a small conf in CA
where it was made clear that fibering up neighborhoods, and even
houses, can be a DIY or small contractor business. The latest single
and multiple conduits range in width from cigarettes to cigars. |
Mike W. | cheaper trenching, rocket powered underground cable pullers, etc. |
Brett G. | And the City wants a franchise agreement! |
Ken D. | plus customer connections running about $700 oer user |
Chris S. | Hint: If Congressman Markey is making jokes about your networking policy, it's not very subtle. |
Ken D. | Anyone have a better number? |
Gregory M. | Comcast pledged this? In writing, where? |
Brett G. | Brad: TCP RST packets were never "forgery" because an IP address is not a name (and does not belong to the customer) |
Doc S. | Should
be good synergy with the small ISPs, if not also the large ones. We
should be working with local munis to do the small biz friendly thing. |
Sascha M. | as
Doc mentions -- the next generation of fiber build is pretty much plug
and play -- if you can build a lego ship, you can build a fiber
infrastructure. |
alex i. | this sounds like cacheflow of Cambridge Eng |
Sascha M. | the technology was highly intuitive and simple to deploy. |
Mike W. | Franchise agreement... why not if you are using the public property? |
Brett G. | Local muni fiber projects (see, for example, Powell, Wyoming) invariably favor the big guys |
Adam M. | So
the chatroom consensus is that not even trenching for fiber should be
considered a natural monopoly. That makes much more sense. |
Ken D. | At what cost? |
Mike W. | Shouldn't the public be paid, too? |
Mar 31 | 9:50 AM |
Ken D. | Why? ISPs don't get paid? |
Mike W. | sounds pretty fuzzy to me, David |
Gregory M. | timeout for a community building exercise :-) |
Mike W. | How did I get in here, then? |
Brett G. | We make such small margins that it sure FEELS as if we do not get paid. |
Ken D. | digital divide |
Mike W. | ?? |
Ken D. | How you got in here - closing the digital divide |
Angela S. | has entered the room |
alex i. | the money is very important |
Ken D. | How you got in here - closing the digital divide |
Brett G. | In cell phone networks, we all pay for our link to the middle as well (though by the minute) |
Ken D. | Oops |
alex i. | the stupid network |
Aleecia M. | Seems
to me that Comcast cares a lot less about upswell of consumer anger
than the FCC checking in and the threat of legislation. I do not
understand why Brad would want to step away from having legislation as
a very real and credible threat, it seems a highly useful tool. |
alex i. | if you need the link: |
alex i. | |
Chris S. | Comcast lied non stop until the EFF and AP caught them red handed. |
Doc S. | local
munis are used to dealing with either building their own utilities
(roads, water, waste treatment) or engaging large external monopolies
(gas, electric, cable TV, telephony). To them a utility is a Big Thing,
not a set of protocols that allow anything to connect with anything.
What they need to do is ease the installing of the physical stuff
(including wireless stuff) that makes it happen. |
Brett G. | The network is not stupid. Internet backbone routers are special purpose supercomputers. |
Gregory M. | legislation is a double edge sword |
Aleecia M. | And EPP++ plus, my gosh, actual reporting. |
shep | Steve
Crocker's point rephrased by me: The most important thing is to not
need to ask permission of the network operator to deploy some new
application on the net. |
Doc S. | Perhaps a dumb question... Do we need all the routers? |
alex i. | shep + + + |
Brett G. | Comcast was inept at handling its PR. The fact is that it was managing its network quite reasonably. |
Gregory M. | good question Doc |
Brett G. | Doc: Durn right we do! Ask any network engineer what happens if you bridge instead of routing. |
Chris S. | Brett: Thats because lawyers don't do good PR. |
Aleecia M. | (How can a subjective judgment of reasonableness be a fact?) |
Mar 31 | 9:55 AM |
Brett G. | Comcast should have let their techies talk. |
Brett G. | All you need is a reasonable definition of "reasonable." |
Aleecia M. | Heh :-) |
Matt T. | good voice with that |
Doc S. | ...
and Comcast shouldn't have packed the Ames Courtroom with seat warmers,
then weaseled about it. One of the dumbest moves, ever. |
shep | already more than 2 seconds |
Chris S. | The Bush administration sells the air too. |
Gregory M. | 70 seconds |
shep | when are they going to start selling the acoustic spectrum? |
Brett G. | Comcast
CLAIMS that those people were line holders who were supposed to be
replaced by their employees, who couldn't get into the hall to take
over the seats. Dunno if that claim is correct or not. |
alex i. | should be leased -- not sold -- |
JoePlotkin | amen roxanne!! |
Ken D. | Talk to the RIAA, I'm sure it was worth it. |
Greg E. | Or giving mining rights! |
Iz W. | brett if you believe that I have a bridge to sell you |
Gregory M. | Brett, puh-lease; and you bought that? |
Shawn C. | that's why we need unlicensed, the wireless carriers now want another auction for TV white spaces |
Iz W. | voxable! |
Gregory M. | nooooo, not the IP question |
Greg E. | Or allowing water bottlers taking ground water and spring water and not paying for it. |
Chris S. | Yay one click |
Darcy G. | has left the room |
alex i. | yay patent challenges |
Brett G. | I
won't discount it. They might have been inept enough to think that the
doors wouldn't be closed and they could have their people replace the
line holders. |
Michael B. | has entered the room |
Chris S. | Reasonable network management remains, for now, novel. |
shep | currently
when the FCC issues (auctions, whatever) a license, it comes with two
parts bundled together: (1) license to radiate, and (2) protection from
interference. I wish these two would be completely seperated and
thought about independently. |
Gregory M. | not concerned about the patent issue itself only the rat hole we can fall into here... |
Iz W. | anyone
who has ever waited in line knows you need to replace the line holder
BEFORE they go into the symphony, not once they are in their seats |
Sascha M. | shep -- you might be interested in the 3650-3700MHz band. |
Sascha M. | it basically creates this separation. |
Brett G. | In a ticketed event, yes. But this wasn't ticketed. |
Ken D. | I
want to see a low power underlay of some of the choice spectrum,
preferably the ones that are accessible by the common WiFi chipsets. |
Jim R. | has left the room |
Brett G. | The 3650 MHz band can't be used in many areas -- including right here! |
Mar 31 | 10:00 AM |
Ken D. | Shep, as long as you aren't in a blacked out area/ |
Iz W. | even if they did mean to "replace" them it's a dirty trick to pack the house with your side by hiring lineholders |
Ken D. | Right |
Chris S. | Verizon: short text messages don't qualify for common carriage. |
Brett G. | Well, the PANEL (the most important seats) were packed by Comcast's detractors |
JoePlotkin | unlicensed non-interfering use of spectrum -- look whats been done with 2.4GHz |
Sascha M. | ken
-- public interest groups attempted to get interference temperature
passed (which would allow underlay below the noise floor). alas, the
FCC refused to o.k. the idea. |
Ken D. | I know. |
Ken D. | I wish they would be more aware. |
Brett G. | 2.4 GHz is TOO unregulated - tragedy of the commons. We should see more 3650 MHz-like rules |
Ken D. | Brett, I disagree. |
Aleecia M. | How would you implement interference temperature in any robust way? |
JoePlotkin | no Brett -- we just need more spectrum |
alex i. | end of session one and I'm on page 5 of notes |
Ken D. | This is a location dependent statement |
Sascha M. | Brett
-- yeah, the satellite uplinks are protected in the 3650-3700 band --
what we need is to open up additional bands (for WISPs, individuals,
the general populace) |
Mike W. | has left the room |
scrawford | has left the room |
Brett G. | That's like saying we need more lanes on the Beltway and all traffic problems will go away. |
Brett G. | |
AKMA | has left the room |
Mar 31 | 10:10 AM |
Izumi A. | has left the room |
robb t. | has entered the room |
matthew b. | has left the room |
Michael W. | has left the room |
Tony A. | has left the room |
Chris S. | has left the room |
Aleecia M. | has left the room |
Iz W. | has left the room |
Chris M. | has left the room |
Ron S. | has left the room |
Ken D. | has left the room |
FACO | has left the room |
JoePlotkin | has left the room |
Tom M. | has left the room |
Doc S. | has left the room |
Paul H. | has left the room |
Angela S. | has left the room |
Michael B. | has left the room |
Mar 31 | 10:15 AM |
RJA | has left the room |
Micah S. | has left the room |
Mary G. | has left the room |
stage | test |
Matt T. | test |
Mar 31 | 10:20 AM |
Suw C. | has left the room |
Greg E. | has left the room |
Matt T. | tst |
Mar 31 | 10:25 AM |
robb t. | has left the room |
Frank P. | has entered the room |
Mar 31 | 10:30 AM |
marc | has entered the room |
Jim R. | has entered the room |
marc | hello |
Gregory M. | hello |
Suw C. | has entered the room |
Michael W. | has entered the room |
Frank H. | has entered the room |
alex i. | yay AFI Silver |
Michael S. | has entered the room |
robb t. | has entered the room |
Tom M. | has entered the room |
Chris S. | has entered the room |
Michael B. | has entered the room |
JoePlotkin | has entered the room |
Mar 31 | 10:35 AM |
Tony A. | has entered the room |
Greg E. | has entered the room |
alex i. | donna edwards http://www.google.com/search?num=100&h’Ķ |
JoePlotkin | suggestion: more electrical outlets |
alex i. | I brought a belkin |
AKMA | has entered the room |
Mike W. | has entered the room |
Angela S. | has entered the room |
alex i. | suggestion: ask everyone to bring a belkin |
matthew b. | has entered the room |
Brett G. | I just brought a low tech extension cord |
robb t. |
changed the room’Äôs topic to
Hello
|
Frank P. | I don't really blame Micah for 2000 |
Mike W. | world thumbfighting federation? |
Steven C. | alex, ty for the belkin, btw |
Doc S. | has entered the room |
Chris M. | has entered the room |
Brett G. | An arena is hitting an arena? |
Tony A. | It was "Where's the Fiber?" |
Brett G. | [CRUNCH] |
Mike W. | that's a lot of hitting |
Doc S. | Anybody know why AIM/iChat doesn't work? |
DirkvanderW | has entered the room |
alex i. | steven i think that's david's belkin |
AKMA | It doesn't? |
Matt T. | waiting to finish |
alex i. | So AKMA, tell us about Obama's church |
Chris S. | Doc -> ssh -D 12345 user@your.machine.harvard.edu, and proxy your AIM through that. |
Brad T. | has entered the room |
Mike W. | I'm a lawyer, so I don't answer the 'why' questions |
AKMA | Supposed to be a pretty cool place |
AKMA | We send students there to observer |
Matt T. | aim works fine here |
mbpdx | has entered the room |
Steven C. | oh, thanks, david. we need a belkin mesh to reach the middle seats |
AKMA | observe |
Mike W. | ohhh no.... |
Steven C. | aim and y messenger both work fine |
Mar 31 | 10:40 AM |
Mike W. | chewwwing |
Chris S. | "Google government" == the NSA logging our data forever? |
Doc S. | thanks, chris. Never ssh'd to the Harvard one. good time to start... |
Tom M. | Good to hear that, AKMA. I've wanted to attend a service there for a long time. |
Brett G. | Obama has embraced "network neutrality" without stating which definition he advocates |
AKMA | Our students always come back wild about it |
Mike W. | no biting, no hitting Micah |
Mike W. | Change Congress |
Doc S. | Can you fix Congress the same way you fix a dog? |
Tom M. | they'll never stop barking, doc. |
Greg E. | |
Brett G. | The Bush administration already has |
Mary G. | has entered the room |
Paul H. | has entered the room |
Mike W. | change-congress.org Larry Lessig's new effort |
Tom M. | this is a great idea! |
Greg E. | Proposed: Transparency in Government Act of 2008 |
Brett G. | Can you change Congress like you change a baby? |
Greg E. | |
Matt T. | agreed |
Greg E. | |
Matt T. | you change them both for the same reason |
Will R. | has entered the room |
Frank H. | What's the magic word? |
Tom M. | like you change planes? |
Mike W. | yes, but the diaper waste is toxic |
Tom M. | underwear? |
Matt T. | toxicity is relative. toxic to whom? |
alex i. | transparency |
Brett G. | Gack, cough, gagh |
Chris S. | Transparency requirement #1: Make congress subject to FOIA |
Mar 31 | 10:45 AM |
Robert C. | has entered the room |
alex i. | wihtout those "research fees" |
matthew b. | requirement #0: make foia work right |
Brett G. | Mom.... Apple pie.... Kissing babies.... |
Mike W. | you r a coder, or not |
Doc S. | Doesn't the senator hack legal code? |
Chris S. | Will Obama use email as president, or will he conduct all business in person, to avoid the papertrail (a la Bush) |
Mike W. | "Obama: not a coda" |
Tom M. | that was I who burst otu laughing at the 'not a coder' statement. How nice to know that. |
alex i. | obama and youtube |
Brett G. | D.C. al fine |
Chris S. | And will Obama's whitehouse use email that is actually backed up? |
Tom M. | I'd like something specific about policy from this fellow. |
Brad T. | From now on, every election will be "the election where technology changed everything" |
Iz W. | has entered the room |
Tom M. | right... |
Chris S. | We do at least have a congressman who is a coder now (http://www.cnet.com/8301-13739_1-9892829-46.html) |
alex i. | View paste
|
Iz W. | funny brett |
alex i. | |
Brian K. | has entered the room |
Brett G. | I'd rather hear an INDEPENDENT analysis of Obama, not one from someone who is obviously biased |
alex i. | yes, where's pat buchanan for that unbiased opinion |
Iz W. | there's no such thing as an unbiased opinion |
Brett G. | Or Hillary? |
Jim R. | EBCDIC encoded |
Matt T. | fair and balanced? anyone? |
Mike W. | openess ’âÝ truth or accuracy |
Tom M. | I don't think it's a question of "bias" but low information load in the language |
alex i. | there's also no such thing as an unbiased pat buchanan |
David I. | http://www.barackobama.com/issues/technology/ is a pretty amazing document . . . |
Mike W. | they are just kissin counsins |
Brett G. | Maybe
we should hear TEN analyses. But the one we should least trust is one
from his staff, whose avowed goal is to get him elected |
Mike W. | cousins |
Tom M. | Leave out the digs at mccain - or anyone |
Brett G. | IMHO, of course |
Brad T. | Yes "let's just pick a random example" |
Mar 31 | 10:50 AM |
Mike W. | don't talk about real people |
Chris S. | Will Obama make public his own Senate office's emails and meeting schedule for the last few years? |
Iz W. | I like this too - compare to "the internet is a series of tubes" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd8qY6myrrE |
Brad T. | The election is a series of youtubes. |
Greg E. | Ellen says, "Put up PublicMarkup.org again..." |
Iz W. | brett, I don't think there's anything wrong with hearing from someone on a campaign staff- nobody is pretending to be unbiased |
Iz W. | you're hearing the official stance. it wasn't billed as an independent analysis. |
Tom M. | Well, obviously, at least youtube is a series of tubes -- duh! |
Chris S. | Well, the NSA already reads my mail. Why not congress's too? |
Greg E. | Wow. That was an incredible statement about transparency Alex. But it is also a lot about efficiencies. |
shep | only 535? why not 536? |
Tom M. | he is fine, iz -- we just want more. |
Greg E. | We've learned on the Internet that abundance is more economical than scarcity -- at least with information. |
Iz W. | get up there tom, there's a spare mike for you |
Brad T. | He's got a crush on Obama |
robb t. | has left the room |
Brett G. | View paste
|
Greg E. | It's scarcity that makes information EXPENSIVE to get. Abundance makes it information INEXPENSIVE to find and use. |
Ellen M. | has entered the room |
JoePlotkin | making congress communications public? Thats seems like a bad idea, IMHO |
Chris S. | Maybe under Obama, we'll get a chief cybersecurity officer who has a bit of security experience (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080’Ķ) |
Mike W. | The US has no Ministry of Information Technology, no Office of the Information Society |
alex i. | benklerized crowdsourced government monitoring |
Greg E. | Obama sponsored the Federal Accountability and Transparency Act - which led to http://www.usaspending.gov/ |
Tom M. | You *want* a Ministry of IT? |
Mike W. | yup |
Ron S. | has entered the room |
Iz W. | brett,
these people know you exist - I think they are on your side, saying
that the big companies have an unfair advantage over small isps like
yours... is that not what they are saying? I'm curious why you don't
agree. |
Greg E. | Tom M.: Maybe a CIO? |
shep | even
if you created a fedgov CTO, they wouldn't have any actual power unless
that power was taken away from the other bits of the bureaucracy, and
will that ever happen? |
Mar 31 | 10:55 AM |
Brett G. | No,
they are saying that people have only two choices: telco or cable.
Again and again. As if they WISH it to be true so that they can be
Davids and have Goliaths to attack. |
Tom M. | that's very different, greg -- sure, why not (isn't there one already?) |
alex i. | exactly shep. for example, who would force 12 govt agencies to use interopable computer systems? |
Robert C. | There is a CIO: http://www.cio.gov/ |
Brett G. | Of course, they'll aim at the Goliaths and kill us. |
Brad T. | I took my cat in to be fixed, and he came back broken. |
shep | afaict, the fedgov has outsourced its CTO function to microsoft. |
AKMA | I come from Chicago -- all the politicians there are fixed |
Brett G. | "The lizards rule the people, and the people hate the lizards." -- Douglas Adams |
Mike W. | and you can give your fixed dog 'Neuticles' Brilliant! Now back to our show... |
Brad T. | You americans have no concept about what it means to actually remove your reps from office. |
Tom M. | I grew up in the first Daley era in Chicago: "vote early and often" was our motto. |
Frank H. | Even
CIOs within agencies can be relatively powerless; real power is often
within operational departments within agencies. CIO office is often
just (relatively ineffectual) policy shop |
Adam M. | There's actually a list of initiatives for getting federal agencies to use interoperable computer systems. See http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/egov/c-6-lob.html
One is on financial management, one is on standardizing desktop PCs and
servers, one is on standardizing networking. They should have started
this years (decades) ago, but they have finally started. |
FACO | has entered the room |
Iz W. | but
brett other independent ISPs recognize the unfair power bigco's are
given and want a fair shake. I guess I still don't understand why you
think these efforts will undercut your independent ISP business. Are
you reliant on comcast or telcos in a way that things that limit their
power will put you out of business? |
alex i. | |
Brett G. | View paste
|
Brad T. | As long as nobody drowned while the lifeguards were arguing with the parents. |
Robert C. | Why should all the desktops be standardized? Doesnt that go against Quarterman's work on computer biodiversity? |
Greg E. | View paste
|
Matt T. | excellent, brett |
Mike W. | OMB
should be the default technical, operational, and policy office for the
entire US Govt. That was never the intent and they do not have the
depth of knowledge, experiance, and independence for that role |
Mike W. | should NOT be, sorry |
Mar 31 | 11:00 AM |
Tom M. | As
to using legislation to create transparency in government, never forget
the real results of the Paperwork Reduction Act. (i.e. more paperwork) |
Adam M. | Robert
- Do you have a link for Quarterman's work? My understanding is that
the desktop standardization program is that they're trying to establish
average prices for typical configurations, so agencies will know if
they're paying fair prices. |
alex i. | netroots on Edwards http://www.dailykos.com/tag/Donna%20Edwards |
Nicholas G. | has entered the room |
Shawn C. | has left the room |
Mike W. | it shows incredible understanding of how things work |
Aleecia M. | has entered the room |
Russ N. | has entered the room |
Iz W. | stage, the link off freedom to connect website says the chat room is empty |
Steven C. | there were several Internet-powered elections in Washington State in the mid- to late-1990s |
shep | |
Iz W. | we're sending people away by accident, can we help them out with a better link? |
Russ N. | #define people "Russ Nelson" |
alex i. | election fatigue. . . have too many elections in order to encourage not working |
Iz W. | she is a rocket scientist. |
alex i. | oops not voting |
Russ N. | Sorry I couldn't attend ... shout outs to everybody. |
Iz W. | hi russ |
Mar 31 | 11:05 AM |
Doc S. | Hey, Russ. Too bad you're not here. |
Doc S. | Physically, that is. |
Russ N. | I know ... I'm a working man now. |
Iz W. | agony |
David I. | somebody please get Donna some faster Internet access! |
Mike W. | the first Internet politician was probably Nick Licata http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Licata_%’Ķ |
Adam M. | Suggestion: Tell Donna about EVDO cards |
Brad T. | We can help you crack your neighbour's WEP keys. |
Matt T. | evdo cards? |
AKMA | But she shouldn't have to pay more for EVDO |
Russ N. | local
village is wondering why they don't have broadband ... gonna attend the
meeting and tell them "it's all in the open fiber, baby!" |
Mike W. | Dewayne, that's an opportunity ;) |
shep | are we currently sitting in MD's 4th congressional district? from the map at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland%27s_’Ķ it is not obvious. |
JoePlotkin | does she mean 18k ft from co? |
Ken D. | has entered the room |
Steven C. | VZ: "hey we serve at least one house in that zip code" |
Nathaniel J. | has entered the room |
Chris S. | Why doesn't Donna get a dish? |
alex i. | she's talking about the kind of effort where there's "service" in the area but nobody can actually order it. |
Ken D. | I'm guessing she means past the 18K foot mark |
Ken D. | Still, Covad, any CLECs in the area? |
Mike W. | those FCC stats don't mean anything unless its your house |
alex i. | latency ~ 500 ms wit satellite |
shep | someone teach her how to buy and install her own wireless link from her house (to wherever makes sense) |
Doc S. | I think she does mean the 18-19k foot mark from the CO. |
Ken D. | Not usuable for VoIP |
JoePlotkin | I can do a prequal now (covad if someone knows her address. |
Iz W. | there's a usability hurdle as well, it's not just technological |
Frank P. | has left the room |
David I. | Joe, hit anywho.com for montgomery cty MD |
Mike W. | she's a rocket scientist, she can figure it out |
alex i. | she wants to have what everyone else has |
alex i. | her constituents |
Iz W. | shep
what you are talking about is not for the layperson - normal people
don't just run around installing wireless routers wherever...she's not
talking about HER |
Doc S. | When
we lived in Woodside, CA in the late 90s, Covad brought to our house
what Verizon wouldn't, because we were 38k feet from a CO. It was slow
"IDSL", but it worked. |
Iz W. | waht she said. tech that works for everyone not just the tech elite |
RJA | has entered the room |
Ken D. | Not true, not everybody has broadband, ask the people in Bedford County PA. |
Brad T. | I can't get technology that works for all of us. |
shep | hmm,
what's the right answer? legislation to require a CO with a DSLAM be
located close enough to her (and everyone else's) house? |
Greg E. | Brad T.: ? |
Elvis | has entered the room |
alex i. | and dailykos |
Gregory M. | sorry, we're in a sound bite world |
Mar 31 | 11:10 AM |
Brad T. | Greg, I mean that a lot of our tech still doesn't work! |
Paul H. | We
are in the 4th Cong. District. I live less than 1 mile from here, and I
voted for her. Although looking at that map, there's a little slice
next to DC that's Van Hollen's district. |
Chris S. | I do. |
Chris S. | And I pay him |
Brad T. | Pay no attention to the audience behind the curtain. |
Chris S. | My employer can read my emails, and Obama is my employee. |
Doc S. | If
she lives under trees or in a condo, a dish might not be possible.
Except for apps (e.g. voip) that require low latency, tho, it's not bad. |
Ellen M. | Reform priorities. http://www.sunlightfoundation.com/2008_priorities |
Greg E. | Yeah. One size never works. |
Mike W. | She also misses the point, IMHO |
John S. | has entered the room |
Iz W. | I would LOVE to read the president's emails. That should happen asap. Imagine the education! |
Ken D. | Actually, it sounds like a good WISP opportunity. |
Russ N. | Doc: I've heard that you really want a 2 meter dish. My experience was 1 meter and was not happy-making. |
Brad T. | I want the president to use a spell checker first, though. |
Mike W. | the point is that the open discussion and the evidence produced leads or points to the outcome |
Ken D. | Put the T1 in her house and distribute by 900Mhz to her neighbors. |
marc | I don't think W uses email |
Ken D. | Brett, are you busy llater? |
Iz W. | come on russ size isn't everything |
Chris S. | We're not a gatekeeper, we only temporarily delay as part of reasonable network management |
Russ N. | when it comes to antennas ... it is. |
Jim R. | W thinks? |
Ellen M. | Take a looj at this too: http://change-congress.org/ |
Brad T. | Hey, Ted Stevens uses it. He "got an internet" about it. |
Mike W. | W doesn't need email. He talks directly to the Man |
Russ N. | Ken D: that's what I do. I haul in to my house 4M via wifi and redistribute to my neighbors. |
Ken D. | Or woman depending on your beliefs |
Iz W. | in
my opinion people should not have to figure out their tech for
themselves, they should be able to buy a computer and turn it on and
internet access should just work. can you all please set that up?
thanks. |
Suw C. | UK campaign from MySociety.org to get Parliament to free our bills: http://www.theyworkforyou.com/freeourbills/ |
AKMA | Better
to mandate an open environment and require people to learn how to
function there than to impose gatekeeping that inevitably tends to
favor privilege |
Chris S. | Usually at midnight, they're passing the patriot act |
Iz W. | mke - he talks directly to god, haven't you heard him say so? |
Mike W. | Change Congress is Larry Lessig's latest effort. I already joined... have you? |
alex i. | mike w do you have a URL? |
Mike W. | that's impossible! |
Brett G. | I'm constantly busy. Why? |
Chris S. | McCain: Kids, get your technology off my lawn. |
Mike W. | change-congress.org |
Ken D. | WISP opportunity |
Matt T. | |
Ken D. | Business calls |
Mar 31 | 11:15 AM |
Brett G. | See me offline or via e-mail |
Mike W. | and the telcos like Hillary the best! |
Chris S. | 9 out of 10 pretty tech lobbyists prefer McCain. |
Ken D. | I am suggesting that you should speak with Donna Edwards. ;-) |
alex i. | mccain -- natl bband to be provided by airbus |
Brett G. | The Telcomm Act of 1996 was passed under Bill Clinton |
Brett G. | and it paid off big for the Telcos |
Gregory M. | Actually
the candidate web sites of the two candidate's not represented here are
both focused on "competitiveness" and "innovation" rather than talking
about comprehensive "technology policy" |
Chris S. | After that, Cisco sold the hardware for China's great firewall. |
Doc S. | Some satellite speeds... http://www.satellitefamily.com/hughesnet-f’Ķ |
Brett G. | Actually, Donna should talk to Tom DeReggi of RapidDSL, which serves this area |
Mike W. | |
Ken D. | That's right, he does, doesn't he. |
Brett G. | Despite their name, they are a wireless ISP like us |
alex i. | |
alex i. | Baller wants a natl bband strategy |
Ken D. | Actualy, I'm not sure his network covers her area. |
Bill S. | has left the room |
mbpdx | has left the room |
Brad T. | Can't you yanks figure this out. RED -> liberal, Blue -> conservative everywhere else in the world. |
Mike W. | how does she check her investments? |
Mike W. | Brad,
it comes from the TV shows, not from the parties. Don't you realize the
US has no real common culture, only the TV version |
Mar 31 | 11:20 AM |
Brad T. | That would be a great name for an interest group Micah. "The Strange Bedfellow Coalition" |
Ken D. | I can has NASCAR? |
Brad T. | Or a great name for a rock band. |
Mike W. | TSBC |
Chris S. | Only republican secret holds are respected. |
Chris S. | Dodd's hold on telco immunity was ignored. |
Gregory M. | digital democracy aside, I'd still like to hear more about the issues of "governance" as it applies to the Internet. |
matthew b. | much like this chat room, right greg? |
Chris S. | Getting rid of gatekeepers: Will the US finally stop killing .xxx? |
Tom M. | http://www.strangebedfellows.org seems to be available. |
Brad T. | No, I checked, it's taken. |
Angela S. | Wonder if its easier to build bi-partisan support around broadband locally rather than nationally. |
Mike W. | sharing info isn't the issue.... USING information transparently is the issue |
Ellen M. | Sunlight monitors members schedules if they make them available. http://punchclockmap.sunlightprojects.org/ |
Mike W. | I really don't care who she meets with... I care who she relies on for her policy decisions |
Brad T. | Glow is the new green. |
shep | has left the room |
Mike W. | they want to retire HER |
Ellen M. | Will Donna take Lessig's pledge? |
Chris S. | Can we get a webcam in her office? |
David I. | what's lessig's pledge? |
Brad T. | Lobbyists are people too -- Clinton |
alex i. | In Praise of .XXX http://www.isp-planet.com/hosting/2005/xxx’Ķ |
Mar 31 | 11:25 AM |
Iz W. | get with the progam donna, just take their money but don't put out for them! |
Chris S. | Will she walk around with a webcasting micrphone, so we can hear the long conversations too? |
Robert C. | What about ollie north's emails |
Mike W. | Lessig's pledge |
Mike W. | |
Tom M. | Do we also want to bug representatives' phones? Even with their knowledge? |
Suw C. | we're having this discussion in the UK too |
shep | has entered the room |
Aleecia M. | If
we insist on making all congress member's lives public, we will only
have candidates who do not value privacy. That makes it much harder to
get warrants and privacy rights. Transparency is great -- but privacy
matters too. |
alex i. | stoller: who you calling young? |
Tom M. | Agreed. |
Jim R. | what is the line between privacy and being a public figure? |
shep | Aleecia +++ |
David I. | Aleecia, I disagree . . . |
Mike W. | Donaa, she is even smarter the longer I listen to her |
Tom M. | Yes, she is really great. |
Tony A. | Just
as I don't want anyone to read my personal email, I respect our
representative's right to their privacy. What I want to have is
transparency of public meetings. |
Casey L. | has entered the room |
David I. | I think people can make the distintion between publi trust and private privacy. |
Chris S. | Reps, like any other employee, have no right to privacy for work related emails. |
Gregory M. | At the end of the day, though, great as those tools are, they are ultimately about raising campaign money |
Tony A. | We should do a back channel like this during all Senate hearings! |
Greg E. | Jim R: Activities you do related to policy and representation are public. |
shep | should a member of congress be able to meet with someone privately in their congressional office? I think the answer is yes. |
Tony A. | Absolutely. |
Chris S. | If Donna wants private communications, she can use Tor |
Tom M. | Transparency is important, critical -- but there are limits to how one treats people. |
Greg E. | Ton A.: Excellent idea. |
Gregory M. | shep ++ |
Mike W. | Right
Tony. Today, in the US legislation and policy development is mostly
done behind closed doors... very different form most parliamentary
systems |
Suw C. | Networking Democracy - http://www.opendemocracy.net/networking-de’Ķ |
David I. | Shep, not while they're woriing for me they dont |
alex i. | shep -- and corporations and lobbying groups are people too. . . |
Ken D. | Or her Blackberry , a la Karl Rove. |
David I. | working for me |
marc | who actually has the time to follow all of this? |
Adam M. | According
to the interwebs, the only DSL service available for Donna at her home
(8904 Glen Ln, Fort Washington, MD 20744) is Covad business service,
starting at $120/month w/ a 2-year contract. |
Gregory M. | corporations are legal fictions |
Mar 31 | 11:30 AM |
Greg E. | Shep: there's always a back-stage. |
Mike W. | she started when she was in kindergarten |
Tom M. | Please... if it's only *work-related* email, then cheaters will route around it via private email, etc. |
matthew b. | on that note, here's another widget for you: http://readablelaws.org |
alex i. | adam how'd you get her home address? |
Ken D. | So, Donna can share her Covad connection with her neighbors. |
shep | I
want more transparency in govt, but I don't think it is reasonable to
prohibit members of the lesgislator from having private meetings. Not
sure what the right answer is here. |
alex i. | no resale on covad biz |
Ken D. | I wNo? |
Ken D. | Would you tell? |
shep | I
think something that reveals which member of congress inserted which
words in which piece of proposed legislation would be a good idea. |
Ken D. | oops - sorrry |
David I. | shep, they can go to their doctor privately, but if they meet with,e.g. a rep from NuclearPower, I want to know it! |
Russ N. | Aleecia++ (privacy) |
Doc S. | We can fix them too. |
alex i. | and
corporations still insist that they have every right that an individual
has -- your right to free speech = Fox News right to lie. your right to
free speech = industry right to lobby |
Adam M. | Alex
i: Her campaign website mentions she lives in Fort Washington.
Whitepages.com gave me 2 addresses for Donna Edwards in Fort
Washington. Googling her name and each address I found records of
campaign contributions, so I figure that's her. |
Brad T. | We're talking about the price of serial |
Tony A. | David:
The problem is that unless you have the transcript of the meeting, the
knowledge that the meeting took place can be misconstrued. |
alex i. | |
Elvis | empowered to eat cheetos and drink mountain dew too |
Chris S. | Most empowered in the world? |
David I. | transcript would be good too |
Greg E. | Chris S.: Just what I was thinking... |
David I. | how about an open webcam in the office? |
Russ N. | David I: can they meet with a high priced prostitute privately? |
David I. | Russ, No. |
Sara W. | has entered the room |
Chris S. | Most of congress has little credit |
Matt T. | in state ones |
Michael B. | has left the room |
Tom M. | no they have to meet publicly w/ the hooker. |
Brad T. | So it really is a webcam. |
Elvis | cash |
Iz W. | hi sara! |
Adam M. | On
the subject of privacy, I thought most elected officials need to report
*who* they have meeting with, but not necessarily the subject of the
meetings. But I believe these laws vary depending on state (or federal)
and the position of the public official. I think elected officials
should be able to have meetings in private, but I think if the purpose
of the meeting relates to their job, who they meeting is with should be
public. |
shep | Let
me put it this way.... I want to be able to go talk to my rep (or any
other member of congress) in their office and have a private
conversation with them. |
Russ N. | not that Spitzer is a good example, since he prosecuted prostitutes. |
Tony A. | As
a generally "nice guy", I would be happy to meet with people who I
violently disagree with, just to hear their POV, but that doesn't mean
I am in bed with them. A simple trace of the fact that I talked with
them implies more thatn it is worth. |
alex i. | population without credit is greater if you include the noncitizens upon whom our economy depends |
Sara W. | Hi Iz! |
Ellen M. | Politics is not a game.http://openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=4837 |
Mar 31 | 11:35 AM |
Brad T. | Don't go negative this early in the campaign. |
Iz W. | no? |
Ramesh L. | has entered the room |
Chris S. | Clinton: We'll vanish your policy in the middle of the night |
Iz W. | you mention it not as a gotcha? |
Sara W. | based on a panicked phone call from joan or john citizen? |
Gregory M. | My
experience has been many (not all) Congressional staff's ability to
listen (let alone reach out to us powerless) is proportional to how
much they believe we are "important" to their agendas (often measured
as amount of money donated). |
Iz W. | oh gregory, what a cynic you are! that's not how it works! |
Gregory M. | sure |
Greg E. | Russ
N.: Of course they can meet with a high priced prostitute privately.
The question is the difference when people find out public. |
Brad T. | We want to come to your BBQs |
Adam M. | I was just trying to bridge the digital divide |
Gregory M. | its the audience's example of the open and transparent nature of the Net |
Chris S. | You live 30 mins from the NSA, and you're wondering about us know your address? |
RJA | FYI, FCC Ex Parte Rules--http://www.fcc.gov/ogc/admain/ex_parte_fac’Ķ |
Sara W. | platitudinous emission alert! |
Gregory M. | Chris ++ |
Sascha M. | F2C social at Donna's? |
Elvis | has left the room |
Robert C. | PK
is not the average person. PK and Gigi Sohn is a very well connected
organization. PK's successful blog doesnt mean a rant in the woods will
be as successful. |
Shawn C. | has entered the room |
Doc S. | Donna, can you see the sky to the south? If so, satellite might be the way to to. Not too expensive. |
shep | If we cobbled together a nice (probably wireless) link to the Internet for her and donated it to her, would that be legal? |
Greg E. | FYI typers, there is a monitor in FRONT of speakers so they can see what is being written. |
Sara W. | (that is, 'we're from the government, we are here to help. majorly platitudinous. pointing fingers gets old) |
Sara W. | doesn't change much either |
Ron S. | has left the room |
JoePlotkin | Donna: Second line distance from CO2:3.36 miles (17720 feet) |
Frank P. | has entered the room |
Greg E. | That is SO true. Silicon Valley so fearless compared to East Coast. |
Mike W. | Donna, you will be hooked up tonite. No worries. |
Chris S. | Next... |
Iz W. | oooh... |
AKMA | "Hooked up" -- to the net, presumably |
Tony A. | Citizens living abroad get *some* representation without taxation. |
JoePlotkin | Donna: I can get ya T1 for $399/month; too far for dsl |
David I. | Joe -- that's too far, she needs a fiber run. |
Sara W. | AKMA: bad boy! |
Iz W. | AKMA - not hooked up like on facebook, no |
Brad T. | I hear you guys fought a war over taxation without representation. I can only conclude that you lost. |
Greg E. | What's the government going to do TO me next? |
Mike W. | Donna, we have your coordinantes |
Doc S. | 47 years ago, hate to say. |
Sara W. | oh, we're adding prunes & bran to the equation too? |
Gregory M. | from self reliance and accountability to entitlement... hmm |
Chris S. | Other questioners - reasonable time limits please. |
Mike W. | coordinates |
alex i. | this is a WSJ talking point: lucky duckies making <$20K who don't have to pay taxes |
alex i. | |
Brad T. | Pick none of 'em |
Mar 31 | 11:40 AM |
Frank P. | just get off my suburban woodside lawn! |
Tony A. | Strange definition of luck. |
Heath R. | I'm confblogging the sessions at http://mediadiet.net -- near-verbatim, real-time transcripts. Open to amendments, corrections, etc. |
Brad T. | New bumper sticker: "I don't pay taxes and I _vote_" |
Iz W. | it's because they can afford to hire high-priced accoutants |
Greg E. | The people learned dependency on government from corporate America. |
AKMA | Thanks, Heath -- you're amazing |
shep | wealthy is not the same as high income |
Chris S. | You spoke long enough dude. |
Gregory M. | from self reliance and accountability to entitlements |
alex i. | we went from Kennedy to Ronald Reagan -- ask what your lobbyist can do for you |
Iz W. | that's
why they don't pay taxes... either that or they got a special break
from the government because they're a corporation who brought jobs to a
region |
Suw C. | @heath r: so am I - http://strange.corante.com :D |
Mike W. | and your question is...? |
Greg E. | Answer: Corporations started Lobbying... |
Gregory M. | rat hole alert |
Robert C. | Everyone
pays taxes. There's income taxes, there's sales taxes, there's death
taxes. Maybe some dont pay every tax - but everyone pays taxes. |
matthew b. | well handled, micah |
Brad T. | For you it hasn't |
Mike W. | is he the evil one? |
Jim R. | how did we get from Tear Down the Wall Mr Gorbachov to lets build a wall around Mexico in 25 years? |
Brad T. | If congress isn't part of the solution it's part of the precipitate |
shep | hmm, how should we disambiguate the two David Isenbergs? |
Greg E. | The
programs started for the benefit of the public turned into dependency
programs by many -- from corporate to particular communities. |
Russ N. | GregE++ |
Brad T. | Can you _have_ too many David Isenbergs? |
Gregory M. | the disambiguation seems to be happening all on its own... |
Russ N. | RobertC++ |
Greg E. | Just as Templeton was saying... |
Matt T. | this david is a military analyst, i believe. |
Greg E. | Brad T.: As long as they are free to compete without regulation. |
Chris S. | Donna: Please make all CRS reports available to the public for free. |
Gregory M. | and the question is.... ? |
Mike W. | how
did we get from "Beware the military-industrial complex..."(Ike) to the
military-industrial complex is the only reason for the nation to exist
(Cheney)? |
Gregory M. | the question please... |
mbpdx | has entered the room |
Greg E. | As
I was taught, Federal Government needed certain companies to focus on
parts for military during WWII. Those companies retooled plants with
the guarantee government would continue to buy parts. Hence a pattern
was created. |
Michael S. | has left the room |
alex i. | in world war i we had an ad board and the media was controlled |
Frank P. | make e-journals freely accessible... project muse, jstor |
Mar 31 | 11:45 AM |
Gregory M. | ah, now we're talking: information access... |
marc | the golden age of kennedy: when minorities and women had no real rights. it was better then. |
Ken D. | has left the room |
Russ N. | marc: barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen. /me looks at Iz's feet. |
Greg E. | Micah's telling the gist of the story. Of course there are some caveats... |
Chris S. | Is is GPL? |
Gregory M. | |
Greg E. | A
government contractor was also involved that contributed to the data
and it was through this contractor, Eagle Eye, that the deal was made. |
Ellen M. | here's a whole list of pending transparency bills: |
Ellen M. | |
Gregory M. | |
Greg E. | Chris S. That's a good question. |
Russ N. | Suw: good typing at http://strange.corante.com/ Tnx. |
Ellen M. | |
Greg E. | Chris S.: I don't think the source code for FedSpending.org is open sourced. I will look into it. |
Gregory M. | |
Suw C. | also
relevant is the Open Rights Group project, Consult, which allows people
to comment on government consultation documents. Helps ORG write
responses and get the discussion going. http://www.openrightsgroup.org/consult/ |
Mike W. | for links to some of the plans |
Mar 31 | 11:50 AM |
Mike W. | the facts are out there, Charles |
Chris S. | Money |
Mike W. | excellent point here |
Gregory M. | chris S.+++ |
Will R. | has left the room |
Nicholas G. | has left the room |
Chris S. | How many bloggers and activists wrote about FISA? Yet, the senate still listened to the $$ |
Mike W. | the four legs of the table: research, advocacy, legislation, litigation |
Suw C. | in
the uk, what tends to encourage MPs to take notice is the idea that
something might affect their chances of getting elected next time.
being a normal person talking to their MP is really important. |
Joshua A. | has entered the room |
David I. | I wrote about fisa . . .for a while isen.blog was all-fisa-all-the-time |
Gregory M. | signal to noise ratio is the penance of freedom to connect |
Ellen M. | has left the room |
Chris M. | Greg M + |
Adam | has entered the room |
Mike W. | "...the way is thoroughly known" Campbell |
Andrew | has entered the room |
Aleecia M. | has left the room |
Suw C. | i
think it's also important to talk about what politicians are doing
*right* as well as wagging the fingure when they do things wrong. |
Greg E. | How many people asked about Osama Bin Laden before 9/11? |
Michael B. | has entered the room |
David I. | Suw ++ |
Adam | if
bloggers (including this room) are so powerful, how come US broadband
is so poor? To the extent that a likely (hopefully...) congress person
is using dial-up |
Paul H. | I'm tweeting conference highlights at http://twitter.com/paulhyland - got a request to use the hashtag #f2c, you should too. |
Mike W. | people get it! |
Mar 31 | 11:55 AM |
Brad T. | The President's National Security Briefings did. |
Mar 31 | 11:55 AM |
David I. | also #f2c2008 |
Chris S. | Kids aren't allowed to use Google anyway - (http://www.cnet.com/8301-13739_1-9902548-46.html), why do they need broadband in the school? |
Gregory M. | thanks paul! |
Mike W. | yeah, I want to have your baby! |
Gregory M. | thanks Isen! (#f2c2008) |
Iz W. | her dr might mis interpret even if she typed it right. |
Mike W. | she is amazing...When she is elected, together with Al Franken, the Republlic will be restored |
David I. | If you're blogging please use technorati tags f2c and f2c2008 |
Suw C. | and
we also need to accept that sometimes, technological solutions are not
the right ones. Online is not necessarily the best place for medical
records, specially if the NHS is doing it. |
Chris S. | Donna: If you want to learn about smart tech policy - go talk to Rep. Rick Boucher - who is awesome. |
Mike W. | thanks Newt |
Mike W. | yes |
Russ N. | Suw++ |
Sara W. | DavidI: kids get in trouble for using wikipedia too. |
Mike W. | thank you, you are a true patriot |
Sara W. | probably even medline. |
Chris S. | You can still give her cash |
alex i. | actblue |
Brad T. | I wish I could vote |
Iz W. | just don't exepct her to accept it |
Brad T. | They can already look at your email Tom |
Mike W. | I think Donna meant trust must be earned |
Heath R. | I'm reading Tom's email now |
Doc S. | Woody Allen: "I flunked my metaphysics exam when I was caught looking into the soul of the kid next to me." |
Iz W. | I thought roxanne represented the investment community - she is a writer? |
Chris S. | For those gmail users in this room. Use SSL or anyone in the room (in addition to the NSA) can see your email. http://www.customizegoogle.com for the lazy |
Brad T. | Can't get a gigabit over my wireless carriers |
Greg E. | Roxanne +1 |
Mar 31 | 12:00 PM |
Tom M. | yeah, heath -- but i sent you that email! :) |
Doc S. | Roxanne is known for having called many futures before they happened. Listen closely. |
Mike W. | it'll be fiber (don't the investor community or they will screw it up) |
Brad T. | Can't get a gigabit from my wired ones either, though. |
mbpdx | Affordable true broadband is what we need and can't get in most places in this country, Donna is a case in point |
Greg E. | Brad T.: Isn't Google saying, "You will." |
Mike W. | don't tell |
Heath R. | On Roxanne: http://www.gildertech.com/public/Telecosm%’Ķ |
Robert C. | An
attempt to make fed agency action re Internet policy more transparent
and promote involvement in the process has been Cybertelecom. It is Web
1.0 technology. If you dont know it, please check it out. http://www.cybertelecom.org/ |
Ron S. | has entered the room |
alex i. | heath are you blogging this one? |
Chris S. | Compulsory licenses. |
alex i. | link? |
Jim R. | has government become reactionary or can it look forward? |
Chris S. | $5 a month on my DSL bill, and free P2P for all |
Brad T. | We can rewrite the document so they are. |
Gregory M. | intellectual property (not protection) |
Heath R. | Alex: http://mediadiet.net |
Iz W. | the corporations who gain from the protection, of course! |
Brad T. | What about TCP/IP Laws? |
Chris S. | And they give out tasty samples. |
alex i. | |
alex i. | Bell South wants 20000 percent margins on itunes |
Brad T. | Yes, hanging is more efficient. |
Gregory M. | Um Alec, commoditzing capital? |
shep | IPv4 or IPv6? |
Iz W. | who else would write the laws? People who benefit from the free propagation of new technology and art? |
Russ N. | BradT: yes, fiber is the solution, not wifi. |
Gregory M. | gold plated = first amongst equals? Equal protection? |
Chris S. | Carter pardoned all the kids who fled to Canada to get away from Vietnam. Will Obama pardon all the RIAA victims? |
Suw C. | I
really wish we had a politician like Obama in the UK. We're repeatedly
fighting the same bad IP law 'reform' attempts. It's like whack-a-mole.
|
mbpdx | We need fiber and wireless. People like mobility. |
RJA | has left the room |
Ramesh L. | has left the room |
Russ N. | mbpdx: true, but the fiber carries the Internet to the wireless base stations. Backhaul. |
Brad T. | You don't think the world is 6,000 years old? |
Jim R. | I don't care how you get it to me, I just want to use it. |
Brad T. | The 2nd amendment defends his right to stick to his guns! |
Gregory M. | Digital democracy is kewl, but still would like to experience a panel on the "governance" of the "Internet" |
shep | ...learn to talk to each other in a useful way. |
Jim R. | has left the room |
Mar 31 | 12:05 PM |
mbpdx | has left the room |
Heath R. | Lunchtime for those off site |
alex i. | has left the room |
Russ N. | tnx, Heath. Hi, BTW. |
Mar 31 | 12:10 PM |
judi | broadcast is off the air until shortly before 1pm. Conference begins again at 1pm |
DirkvanderW | has left the room |
Mar 31 | 12:15 PM |
Chris R. | has left the room |
Steven C. | has left the room |
Adam M. | has left the room |
Joe C. | has left the room |
marc | has left the room |
Suw C. | has left the room |
Michael W. | has left the room |
Frank H. | has left the room |
Tom M. | has left the room |
Chris S. | has left the room |
JoePlotkin | has left the room |
AKMA | has left the room |
Angela S. | has left the room |
matthew b. | has left the room |
Chris M. | has left the room |
Brad T. | has left the room |
Robert C. | has left the room |
Iz W. | has left the room |
Nathaniel J. | has left the room |
John S. | has left the room |
shep | has left the room |
Casey L. | has left the room |
Adam | has left the room |
Michael B. | has left the room |
Ron S. | has left the room |
judi | they'll be back... |
matthew b. | has entered the room |
Heath R. | has left the room |
Tony A. | has left the room |
Greg E. | has left the room |
Mike W. | has left the room |
FACO | has left the room |
Joshua A. | has left the room |
Mar 31 | 12:20 PM |
Mary G. | has left the room |
Paul H. | has left the room |
Sara W. | has left the room |
Mar 31 | 12:25 PM |
Brett G. | Elvis has left the room |
judi | View paste
|
Joe C. | has entered the room |
Mar 31 | 12:35 PM |
John B. | has entered the room |
Mar 31 | 12:40 PM |
Frank P. | has left the room |
Mar 31 | 12:45 PM |
Heath R. | has entered the room |
Mar 31 | 12:50 PM |
Paul H. | has entered the room |
Michael W. | has entered the room |
judi | has left the room |
Mar 31 | 12:55 PM |
Adam M. | has entered the room |
Chris R. | has entered the room |
John B. | Paper handouts? This is NOT a carbon-neutral presentation. |
Aleecia M. | has entered the room |
Robert C. | has entered the room |
alex i. | has entered the room |
Robin C. | has entered the room |
Gregory M. | what carbon cost these t-shirts? |
alex i. | wow campfire working very very well |
alex i. | paper handouts = carbon sequestration |
Suw C. | has entered the room |
Mar 31 | 1:00 PM |
Aleecia M. | (we now have recycling set up in the main room by lunch. sorry for those who had to toss out cans before) |
Tony A. | has entered the room |
AKMA | has entered the room |
Casey L. | has entered the room |
AKMA | Recycling bin for cans now available out front |
Mike W. | has entered the room |
Chris M. | has entered the room |
Jonas B. | has entered the room |
Jonas B. | Hello from Sweden |
Brett G. | To recycle the handouts, add them to the campfire |
FACO | has entered the room |
Mar 31 | 1:05 PM |
FACO | Hello from Amsterdam |
Chris S. | has entered the room |
Gregory M. | Welcoem FACO! |
JoePlotkin | has entered the room |
Iz W. | has entered the room |
Gregory M. | welcoem = welcome |
FACO | Thanks Gregory M. |
marc | has entered the room |
Steven C. | has entered the room |
Michael B. | has entered the room |
Angela S. | has entered the room |
Frank P. | has entered the room |
Brad T. | has entered the room |
mbpdx | has entered the room |
Mar 31 | 1:10 PM |
Gregory M. | Hey mbpdx... you in PDX, OR? |
Mike W. | groetjes A'dam. Hallo Sverige |
Mike W. | welcom allemaal |
Mike W. | welkom |
Brad T. | According to the Onion, the earthquake last year knocked Japan back into the 22nd century. |
Nathaniel J. | has entered the room |
FACO | Dank je wel Mike |
Tom M. | has entered the room |
Gregory M. | Dirk++ |
Joshua A. | has entered the room |
Jonas B. | ;-) |
Geoff D. | has entered the room |
judi | has entered the room |
judi | View paste
|
mbpdx | Gregory M -I am here in person. |
Jim R. | has entered the room |
Greg E. | has entered the room |
Gregory M. | gotcha, thx |
Frank H. | has entered the room |
Gregory M. | has the Obama camp attempted to register "Yes, we can" yet as a TM? |
Mar 31 | 1:15 PM |
Francois L. | has left the room |
matthew b. | has left the room |
Mar 31 | 1:15 PM |
Mike W. | however, Vodafone (UK) owns 49% of Verizon wireless |
Mike W. | and KPN used to own much of Qwest |
Mike W. | which was Qwest/KPN just a few years ago |
Gregory M. | access to information is an essential building block of society |
Brad T. | No, they can't |
Mike W. | Detusche Telekom, of course, owns T-Mobile, formerly Voicestream |
Mike W. | Deutsche |
MichaelMaranda | has entered the room |
Chris S. | With a telco, only the NSA can listen to my calls. When I use gmail, everyone on my wifi network can read my email. |
Steven C. | Vodafone's stake is 45% |
John B. | Discussion of F2C happening now in Second Life - http://slurl.com/secondlife/Capitol%20Hill’Ķ |
Brad T. | Took a long time for wireless telcos to encrypt, and still working on doing it well. |
Mar 31 | 1:20 PM |
Mike N. | has entered the room |
Tony A. | Can you please export fast street repairs to the rest of the world. |
Heath R. | If your laptop's sound is on, please put it on mute. Thanks! |
Robert C. | Prohibition
of interception of wifi: 47 CFR § 15.9 Prohibition Against
Eavesdropping; Electronic Communications Privacy Act. See http://www.cybertelecom.org/broadband/wifi’Ķ |
Brad T. | Not
to USA. After Katrina, the dutch showed up and said "we know a bit
about floods and levees, can we help?" and the USA turned them away. |
judi | Heath, what sound are you hearing? (not from broadcast?) |
Brett G. | I
am a wireless ISP, and I can tell you that most of our customers opt
for more speed rather than encryption if given the choice. They don't
see a great need for encryption because they see the entire Internet as
insecure anyway (except perhaps for secure Web sites, which of course
use encryption clear from their PCs to the destination). |
Heath R. | No, local. Someone's laptop pings every time the chat progresses. |
judi | thx |
Richard B. | has entered the room |
judi | we're listening for it |
Gregory M. | ping coming from sent chat updates. Mac on stage? |
Chris S. | Robert
C. It's illegal for the telcos to participate in the NSA wiretapping
program, and that hasn't stopped it from happening. The solution is
encryption by default, not more laws. |
Richard B. | Hello folks. |
Brian K. | has left the room |
Heath R. | I think it was the guy next to me. I just turned it off. |
alex i. | re:
Katrina. Bush wanted to spend $20 million and the dutch solution was $4
billion. I suppose the price of life can be estimated from this (what
was Katrina death toll?) at about $1000 |
Mike W. | nee, Brad T. De Dutch are now in charge of emergency planning in NO. It has been outsourced to the Dutch. |
Suw C. | Australians have a good term for that sort of broadband - "fraudband" |
Brad T. | Glad they are now, but they were turned away after the disaster. |
Mar 31 | 1:25 PM |
Brett G. | Give me a break! DSL is also shared -- just one step up the pipe. |
alex i. | I first heard "fraudband" here: |
alex i. | |
Brett G. | And FIOS is shared as soon as you get to the switch in the neighborhood. |
marc | i have turned my sound on mute. sorry |
Richard B. | If you don't like sharing, the Internet ain't for you, Brad. |
Brad T. | I don't like sharing? |
Brett G. | Use it to heat a bus shelter. |
Matt T. | are you still hearing the ping? |
Heath R. | We cleared it up, thanks. |
Steven C. | I think he meant Brett, not Brad |
JoePlotkin | define "sharing" |
Joshua A. | is it possible to swap two images on the screens? less need to project the thing many of us have already on our own screens |
Brett G. | See the famous "Chaos on Laurel Lane" commercials from Pac Bell. |
Richard B. | Whoever was falsely distinguishing DSL and cable when I came in. Brett is right, we all share most of the Interet. |
Frank P. | |
Brad T. | Those commercials were very funny, but not exactly true. |
Mike W. | |
David I. | http://www.benkler.org/SharingNicely.html sharing nicely |
Mike W. | france http://www.arcep.fr |
Brad T. | With
cable and wireless, the sharing is on the 1st mile, though. Past the
1st mile you can have fiber, and we can now put a tb over fiber. |
Ken D. | has entered the room |
Mike W. | neelie kroes |
Mar 31 | 1:30 PM |
Mike W. | Directorate of the Information Society |
Gregory M. | Sie Germans are "the diesel of the European economy" quotable |
David I. | I thought Kroes was competition officer of e.u. |
Mike W. | |
Chris S. | Information
Security tools (such as nmap, wireshark, etc) are illegal in Germany
now, so if that was her job, she wouldn't be too busy. |
Richard B. | Really illegal? |
Brett G. | The Pac Bell commercial (very funny!) is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubc7zFSyEbg |
Mike W. | Neelie Kroes is Competition Commissioner. Viviane Reding is InfoSoc Commissioner. Both Dutch |
Brett G. | Maybe David I. will let us play it |
FACO | see for nelie kroes: http://ec.europa.eu/commission_barroso/kro’Ķ |
Chris S. | |
shep | has entered the room |
FACO | |
Brad T. | Wow, they protect confidentiality with DNA. Much stricter than here. |
Tom M. | has left the room |
Iz W. | funy brad |
Chris S. | Amsterdam fiber: Past the 1Gb/s broadband to the left hand side. |
Greg E. | I'm suddenly wondering about the usefulness of any network test of 40,000 people... |
Iz W. | I was trying to get my head around that too |
David I. | they have 1000 Mbit/s, we in this room have 5 Mbit/s down and 2.5 up |
judi | Disclosure Not permitted outside Amsterdam |
David I. | and our network is quite fast by US stds |
judi | (dna) |
Mar 31 | 1:35 PM |
Francois L. | has entered the room |
Greg E. | How
much do I talk to people online in my immediate neighborhood? Don't I
tend to use network most with a combination of people (some random)
with whom I share interests? |
JoePlotkin | David I: will his presentation be available download? |
Iz W. | those europeans often put acronyms in a different order, like SIDA. So this is probably just disclosure Not agreement. |
Tree S. | has entered the room |
Iz W. | greg, you might share interests with people in your neighbrohood |
Mike W. | sewers, is that anything like Waternet? |
David I. | Joe, ask Dirk that |
JoePlotkin | ok |
Tree S. | hey, entered room |
Jonas B. | but I am here ;.) |
Frank P. | hi Tree |
Tree S. | hey franklin |
Iz W. | tree? |
Tree S. | c'est moi |
Frank P. | they're running at Laurel on Thursday |
Tree S. | you goin |
Tree S. | ? |
Frank P. | no... outa here on wednesday mrning |
Tree S. | dirty euros |
Tree S. | about those dirty euros |
Richard B. | Government subsidized, the workers pay for your broadband. |
Jim R. | how much is too much bsndwidth? |
Frank P. | can't do trenching without dirtying your Euros |
Mike W. | wait
a minute, Dirk. this is impossible!!! We are not hearing this! Only the
private sector can do this, and it must be done with wireless! |
Tree S. | produced by former prisoners |
alex i. | prisoners in china? |
Mike W. | Tom Tom |
Mar 31 | 1:40 PM |
alex i. | dirk dirk |
Frank P. | farms in berkeley? |
Mike W. | But wait Dirk, TomTom is impossible. Only Garmin produces GPS |
Brad T. | Moooooo |
Tree S. | i
think i have this genetic thing going on where i can't really hear
anything he's saying and i'm looking over my shoulders for the dogs |
Richard B. | I want my MTV. |
Gregory M. | who let the dogs out? |
Tree S. | sorry. just thinking outloud. |
mbpdx | |
Mike W. | has left the room |
Mike W. | has entered the room |
alex i. | telegraph -- 1 bps |
Frank P. | Terry Pratchett wrote about that |
Tree S. | looks like half a swastika to me |
Mike W. | Admiral Nelson also used this system |
shep | |
Adam M. | Semaphore info - http://cabinet-of-wonders.blogspot.com/200’Ķ |
alex i. | pratchett book: going postal |
Frank P. | right! |
Suw C. | wow, i had no idea that clacks towers really existed. |
Francois L. | |
Tree S. | yeah, i gotta couple |
alex i. | gordon cook speaking |
Tony A. | Also in Monsterous Regmiment |
Frank H. | has left the room |
shep | which book? |
AKMA | Carlotta? |
Suw C. | reading Monstrous Regiment right now w. my husband |
Tree S. | btw, i don't see any broads on this board |
FACO | Carlotta Perez |
Frank P. | whadabout Suw? |
alex i. | |
Mar 31 | 1:45 PM |
alex i. | difference between GDP in $ terms and PPP |
Tree S. | monstrous regiment of women? |
FACO | |
Tony A. | He
explains Group IV fax in great detail, without any technical jargon. I
read it at the same time I read Digital Fortress, where Dan Brown got
no details about communications and cryptography right. |
Tree S. | that book? |
Tony A. | Yes. |
Ken D. | has left the room |
alex i. | monstrous regiment is a play on that book but terry pratchett is cool and writes about the history of misogyny (sp?) |
Gregory M. | "operating capital" is "working capital" and is nothing but a variation of financial capital |
alex i. | excess of financial capital: selling Bear Stearns cheap to save your job and prevent a lawsuit |
shep | |
Tom M. | |
Tom M. | has entered the room |
Brad T. | |
Tom M. | the above link is to the chapter in her book on financial capital vs. production capital |
Tree S. | no more pp. yoko. |
Brett G. | It's a capital offense. |
Tree S. | if he says "carbon footprint" i'm outta here |
Gregory M. | No worries; no more death by .PPT |
Chris M. | But
capital that's invested in productive capacity is different (though by
other nomenclature) from capital that's engaged in trading financial
assets |
alex i. | |
Russ N. | Carbon Footprint. |
Matt T. | size 13? |
Sean D. | has entered the room |
Tree S. | yeti |
Brett G. | I'm getting tired of mopping up all of those sooty black carbon footprints. |
Tree S. | you try soaking you try scrubbing |
AKMA | PP varies by the presenter; Doc and Larry Lessig use it superbly |
Iz W. | tree, of all organic beings you should care most about carbon footprints |
shep | Confusion Footprint |
Tony A. | Did someone say carbon footprint? http://www.joyoftech.com/joyoftech/joyarch’Ķ |
Mar 31 | 1:50 PM |
alex i. | yeah,
BT, there were french military victories in the time of napoleon, otoh,
napoleon also said (says Civ IV) "You would make a ship sail against
the winds and currents by lighting a bon-fire under her deck? I have no
time for such nonsense." - Napoleon, on Robert Fulton's Steamship |
Tree S. | lessig is going to have a difficult time topping that nlp, wait for it, letter thing he has going on... |
Paul H. | PP is good: http://www.davidbyrne.com/art/eeei/index.php |
Tree S. | big in japan |
Doc S. | Powerpoint
is an instrument. The problem is, most people play it only to
themselves, using it for speakers notes. You can make it rock. From way
back: http://searls.com/present.html |
DirkvanderW | has entered the room |
Brett G. | I don't use PowerPoint. I use HTML. |
Iz W. | has left the room |
Tree S. | link on |
Iz W. | has entered the room |
Iz W. | hello world |
Tree S. | yeah, thanks for holding that up |
Iz W. | unfortunate name |
alex i. | doc, just because you can make PP rock doesn't mean that others should try! |
shep | Randy Bush: https://rip.psg.com/~randy/ |
Suw C. | you know, I think I could just about cope with 80mb. i mean, it'd be a sacrifice, but I could deal with it. |
Tree S. | randy bush? |
Tree S. | not so good down the crown. |
JoePlotkin | funny Iz |
alex i. | tree calling the bush a bush |
Chris S. | Forget
Japan. AT&T offers $10 per month DSL, at uber-fast 768kbps
broadband speeds (only for first time AT&T customers in the south). |
shep | (he mentioned Randy in his talk) |
Chris S. | We lead the world in cheap broadband. |
DirkvanderW | I just have 32 down, 33 up. terrible slow... |
Tree S. | if i fall in this chat room will anyone hear? |
Mar 31 | 1:55 PM |
Tree S. | braggart |
Jim R. | must be a lot of poor lawyers in Japan |
judi | maybe they're doing something interesting on the net? |
Tree S. | hold it up so we can see it |
judi | no tree, chat doesn't have sound. We'd have to be viewing the video to hear you. |
Tree S. | good answer |
Tree S. | was mackin on his zen vibe. sort of a koan. all my relations. etc. |
mbpdx | has left the room |
alex i. | has left the room |
Richard B. | Japan blocks VoIP and will soon filter for illegal file sharing. Their 100 Mb/s second is also over 90% loaded. |
matthew b. | has entered the room |
Tom M. | but no one knows... |
alex i. | has entered the room |
Richard B. | They know, any network that heavily loaded is slow. |
Mar 31 | 2:00 PM |
Tony A. | has left the room |
Chris S. | has left the room |
Tony A. | has entered the room |
Angela S. | please define "over 90% loaded" |
Doc S. | testing... |
Chris S. | has entered the room |
Tree S. | sure |
Richard B. | Comcast will soon have 130 Mb/s downstream and 100 Mb/s upstream. Shared. |
Gregory M. | test (ignore) |
Richard B. | Network load is calculated by measuring traffic vs. capacity. |
Richard B. | Packet networks need excess capacity - excess over demand - to have low delay. |
Tree S. | i need visuals to understand numbers |
Sara W. | has entered the room |
Angela S. | Thank you Richard |
Richard B. | Brett has a slide from Japan on who uses the bandwidth. It's mainly used for theft. |
Richard B. | The speaker said his networks are 90% loaded as well. That's not healthy. |
Mar 31 | 2:05 PM |
Jonas B. | on peek load 50 - 60% normal |
Richard B. | 50-60% would be better. |
Gregory M. | has left the room |
Brett G. | has left the room |
Sascha M. | has left the room |
Paul B. | has left the room |
Doc S. | has left the room |
Joe C. | has left the room |
Steven C. | has left the room |
Michael B. | has left the room |
Frank P. | has left the room |
Jonas B. | In Sweden we upgrade when we have 70% load for some time |
Joshua A. | has left the room |
shep | has left the room |
DirkvanderW | has left the room |
Richard B. | Who's this speaker? |
Gregory M. | has entered the room |
Jonas B. | when we get 70% we add + 100% |
Jim R. | Speaker is Tim Nulty I think. |
judi | has entered the room |
judi | confirming: Tim Nulte |
Tree S. | "ubiquitous" count: 3 |
judi | Brett: can you post your slide that Richard was referring to? |
judi | (see upload file on the right) |
Mar 31 | 2:10 PM |
judi | if anyone here is watching youtube, please stop |
stage | has left the room |
David I. | has left the room |
Ryan M. | has left the room |
Shawn C. | has left the room |
John B. | has left the room |
Michael W. | has left the room |
Chris R. | has left the room |
Aleecia M. | has left the room |
Casey L. | has left the room |
Chris M. | has left the room |
FACO | has left the room |
marc | has left the room |
Brad T. | has left the room |
judi | has left the room |
Iz W. | has left the room |
matthew b. | has left the room |
Tony A. | has left the room |
Jim R. | feeling like I am only one left in the room. |
Jonas B. | I am here ;.) |
matthew b. | has entered the room |
Chris R. | has entered the room |
Sean D. | has left the room |
Robert C. | Broadband in the room appears to have died |
Sara W. | has left the room |
Jim R. | jonas b (EVDO?) |
Mar 31 | 2:15 PM |
Jonas B. | You need the gigabit... |
Mar 31 | 2:15 PM |
Michael W. | has entered the room |
FACO | has entered the room |
Aaron S. | has left the room |
Heath R. | has left the room |
Paul H. | has left the room |
Suw C. | has left the room |
Mike W. | has left the room |
Heath R. | has entered the room |
Jim R. | the conference is on pause while we debug the wifi issue. |
Tree S. | deep packet inspection. he will lie awake thinking that he said that. |
JoePlotkin | has left the room |
Tree S. | is anyone on this board that is in that room? |
Richard B. | Those in the room were kicked out when their WiFi died. |
Russ N. | Oh dear. WiFi at conferences can be so iffy. |
Tree S. | is anyone on this board that is NOT in that room? |
Adam M. | The
wiFi seems to have crapped out, but it's being worked on. (I'm in the
room, but I'm using my EVDO phone; yay for open devices.) |
Mar 31 | 2:20 PM |
John B. | has entered the room |
Gregory M. | has left the room |
Matt T. | has left the room |
Gregory M. | has entered the room |
Robin C. | has left the room |
AKMA | has left the room |
Angela S. | has left the room |
Nathaniel J. | has left the room |
Francois L. | has left the room |
alex i. | has left the room |
Greg E. | Really enjoying this person on stage. Glad he decided to come instead of the geek. |
Gregory M. | back on my AT&T edge service |
judi | in-conf screen just went offline (temporarily) |
judi | looking into bandwidth issues here |
Gregory M. | Please advise when wireless returns |
Michael B. | has entered the room |
Jonas B. | Great person, fiberfighter |
Suw C. | has entered the room |
Gregory M. | frustrating if it happens that someone at the Theatre spoiled it by being a bandwidth hog |
Mar 31 | 2:25 PM |
judi | yeah, like the video broadcaster and chat forums... |
judi | heh |
Gregory M. | be wary the beard |
Richard B. | They need a little traffic shapring and policing, apparently. Stupid networks never work. |
matthew b. | has left the room |
Gregory M. | so much for presuming people will act reasonably. I fear this is an example of the underbelly of entitlement... |
Matt T. | has entered the room |
Tree S. | mayor of lafayette is owner of a pet shop. who knew? |
judi | if people knew (which they do now), they will act in their best interest, no? |
Brad T. | has entered the room |
Adam M. | or is it their beast's interest? |
judi | also, more people in audience this afternoon than this morning |
Richard B. | People act in their own best interests, not in mine. |
Michael W. | has left the room |
FACO | has left the room |
Heath R. | has left the room |
Gregory M. | Perhaps Judi, but my understanding is David order sufficient bandwidth |
Gregory M. | order = ordered |
judi | sufficiently delivered? one wonders... |
Richard B. | How much is enough? |
Gregory M. | Easy to pass the buck ;-) |
Gregory M. | Seriously, do we anticipate a return of the network and the video screen in the theatre? |
judi | really? I'm collecting. |
Jonas B. | hi is funny |
judi | yes we do, momentarily. |
Mar 31 | 2:30 PM |
judi | The chat for broadcast window is running in front of some diagnostic tools that need to be accessed |
Mar 31 | 2:30 PM |
Tom M. | has left the room |
Jonas B. | he is funny and needed |
Chris R. | has left the room |
judi | broadcast chat will be back as soon as possible |
Gregory M. | no:
pass the buck = easy to claim SEP ("Someone Elses Problem") and I
presume a portion of the $450 I shelled out *did* help defray
connectivity costs... |
Jim R. | I like that more than peer to peer. Citizen to Citizen |
Richard B. | Who's this speaker dude? |
Chris R. | has entered the room |
Adam M. | If the previous speaker was Tim Nulty, this should be John St. Julien |
judi | speaker is John, yes |
John B. | has left the room |
Jim R. | John St. Julien is speaker |
Gregory M. | |
FACO | has entered the room |
Tree S. | ubiquitous count: 4 |
Gregory M. | we're back on screen in theatre (all remote audience) |
JoePlotkin | has entered the room |
Francois L. | has entered the room |
AKMA | has entered the room |
Chris S. | Who let Comcast run the wifi network? |
Heath R. | has entered the room |
Chris M. | has entered the room |
alex i. | has entered the room |
Michael W. | has entered the room |
judi | in-conf chat is back |
Heath R. | Sorry; I was playing WoW |
JoePlotkin | we're back! |
alex i. | i wonder if the bwidth issue was windows update |
marc | has entered the room |
Heath R. | (Just kidding) |
Tom M. | has entered the room |
Brad T. | We're back, baby |
JoePlotkin | something was swamping LAN |
AKMA | Heath, which server do you play on? |
Nathaniel J. | has entered the room |
Mike W. | has entered the room |
Tree S. | "packet-guy" respectfully disagrees with lafayette guy. |
Chris S. | If anyone just turned off their laptop (and was thus the offending machine), leave it off. |
Tom M. | we have a lot of sarcasm-catching-up to do. |
Mar 31 | 2:35 PM |
Tree S. | have you tried turning your machine off and on? |
Tree S. | is the button on the side glowing? |
Jim R. | format c: /s |
Gregory M. | funny, my firewall *did* just ask permission to let WinUpdate call home... |
Tree S. | IT CROWD moment. |
Tree S. | is Moss not in the room? |
MichaelMaranda | Hi Izumi! |
Tree S. | ng = next generation network. they should give that acronym a re-think. |
Geoff D. | has left the room |
Suw C. | has left the room |
Jonas B. | Should be TNG = startrek |
Tree S. | sorry, NGN. i heard NG. |
Mar 31 | 2:40 PM |
judi | the problem on the speaker's computer is that it's recognizing the outside display but not sending signal to it |
Jonas B. | restart or change PC? |
alex i. | huge queue |
Richard B. | Portland's Muni net is going nowhere fast |
Andrew | has left the room |
Jim R. | seems to me that the solution must be local. National solutions take too much momentum. |
tj | has entered the room |
Angela S. | has entered the room |
Brett G. | has entered the room |
tj | Hello |
tj | has left the room |
judi | Hi TJ |
Mar 31 | 2:45 PM |
Greg E. | has left the room |
Michael B. | has left the room |
Matt T. | has left the room |
Chris R. | has left the room |
JoePlotkin | has left the room |
Heath R. | has left the room |
Chris M. | has left the room |
Michael W. | has left the room |
marc | has left the room |
Nathaniel J. | has left the room |
Mike W. | has left the room |
Jim R. | fear, uncertainty, and doubt. You could run a national campaign on that. |
Izumi A. | has entered the room |
MichaelMaranda | :) |
Joe C. | has entered the room |
Steven C. | has entered the room |
Mar 31 | 2:50 PM |
Richard B. | It's hard to manage a network. Call Comcast. |
Adam M. | has left the room |
alex i. | has left the room |
RJA | has entered the room |
Mar 31 | 2:55 PM |
Brett G. | has left the room |
Chris S. | has left the room |
AKMA | has left the room |
Izumi A. | has left the room |
Frank H. | has entered the room |
judi | Re: wireless in the room, we've got 3 computers using up all our bandwidth. We're on your tails... |
judi | wireless will be back asap. |
Mar 31 | 3:00 PM |
Jim R. | has left the room |
Tom M. | has left the room |
Frank P. | has entered the room |
Richard B. | has left the room |
FACO | has left the room |
Angela S. | has left the room |
Steven C. | has left the room |
Mar 31 | 3:05 PM |
Brad T. | has left the room |
Joe C. | has left the room |
Frank P. | has left the room |
Suw C. | has entered the room |
Mar 31 | 3:10 PM |
Russ N. | Nobody loves us. Everybody hates us. We think we'll go eat worms. |
Gregory M. | Attention
EVERYONE in the THEATRE: please check your IP address and verify if you
are 209.190.200.27 ...if so see us at STAGE ASAP! |
Michael W. | has entered the room |
Suw C. | phew, not me. |
Gregory M. | For WIN users: start a CMD window and type ipconfig /all |
Russ N. | I blame Suw. Her typing is probably consuming all the bandwidth, hehe. |
Gregory M. | For Linux users, if you don't know already... um, er, see us. |
Michael W. | I'm .28, not .27 phew |
RJA | has left the room |
Mar 31 | 3:15 PM |
Russ N. | Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and atomic weapons. Not IP addressing. |
Suw C. | @russ: had to put the blogging on hold in the last session. head is clogged with cold and brain struggling to function. :( |
Tree S. | i am not in the room. i am in france and the live video is down. |
Suw C. | @tree: it's a break atm |
Gregory M. | Sorry Tree, we're on that too |
Robert C. | has left the room |
Russ N. | Suw: oh dear. Well, I appreciate the blogging you did do ... get better soon! |
Gregory M. | Live video is suspended until we reconvene |
Jim R. | has entered the room |
Tree S. | i was enjoying that guitarist... |
Jim R. | there is nothing to see here please move along |
Joe C. | has entered the room |
Gregory M. | For MAC users: go to ABout This MAc; then More Info, then Network |
Russ N. | Heath Row's blog is at http://mediadiet.net/ , and he's got the Open Fiber talk up already. |
Fred C. | has entered the room |
Suw C. | @russ: i'll get back to it soon as i can make my brain to behave. |
Gregory M. | Again, its 209.190.200.2 |
Gregory M. | sorry |
Mar 31 | 3:20 PM |
Gregory M. | that's 209.190.200.27 |
Russ N. | Interesting that East Central Vermont has no roads with fewer than 12 houses to the mile, |
Gregory M. | and the address seems to have suspended whatever activity that was flooding the net... |
Russ N. | cuz I counted the houses on mine, and we have slightly less than 10 houses to the mile. |
matthew b. | has entered the room |
Gregory M. | thanks to whoever is at .27 for stopping the packet flooding :-) |
matthew b. | or shutting down and acquiring a new ip :-) |
Frank H. | has left the room |
Russ N. | I'm
thinking seriously of creating my own ROW through the woods at the back
of people's property, and dragging fiber through the woods. Just lay it
on the ground. Bury it whenever I cross a woods road. |
Frank P. | has entered the room |
AKMA | has entered the room |
Frank P. | hello |
Russ N. | Fiber isn't that expensive to purchase if you want a reasonable number of strands, and tight pack fiber is quite durable. |
AKMA | 209.190.200.82 here |
Russ N. | Mr. Paynter I presume? |
Michael B. | has entered the room |
Mar 31 | 3:25 PM |
Suw C. | Frank, where are you? |
John B. | has entered the room |
Tree S. | sorry if this is a stupid question, but who was the gentleman from vermont? i enjoyed listening to him. |
Gregory M. | its back, and its not .27's entire fault |
Michael B. | Russ N. are you in DC or VT? |
Russ N. | Tim Nulty, Tree. |
Danny O. | has entered the room |
Russ N. | Michael, northern New York. Think "cows and trees", not "skyscrapers" |
Tree S. | thanks. and thanks tim nulty. great stuff. |
Gregory M. | we're going to track it, hang in there |
Russ N. | Michael: Iz can describe it well enough ... she has a camp up here, on Saranac Lake. |
Suw C. | cows and trees++ |
Sascha M. | has entered the room |
Michael B. | Oh, OK. I do wireless in central VT (one town north of Nulty's project) |
David I. | has entered the room |
Frank P. | suw over your left shoulder |
Frank P. | hi russ! |
Frank H. | has entered the room |
Russ N. | Michael:
my wifi comes 3.5 miles from a construction company whose building I
happen to see from my 3rd floor. Got a colocated cable modem, OpenWRT,
and 24dbI dish. |
Brad T. | has entered the room |
Brad T. | We should just go to IRC for this chat... |
Russ N. | IRC++ |
Russ N. | Michael: dish is mounted on a mast strapped to a chimney, and high winds rotated their chimney. |
Frank P. | russ, are you in the room? |
Russ N. | Frank P: alas, no, I had to stay home and work. |
Michael B. | the chimney or the dish? |
Heath R. | has entered the room |
Mar 31 | 3:30 PM |
Frank P. | {virtual wave to russ} |
Brad T. | At least it would be more tolerant of faliures |
Brad T. | How about freenode#f2c? |
Russ N. | Michael:
dish connected to chimney, so both. I'll be relocating the dish off the
chimney when it gets warmer, and, gulp, buying them a new chimney. |
Michael B. | great story. I'll be sure to tell my installers. |
Russ N. | But
.... I've designed a secure way to raise a 20 to 30' pole from the
ground, securing it to the side of the building, AND being able to
rotate it from the ground. |
Russ N. | Sketches on request. Google for "russ". |
FACO | has entered the room |
alex i. | has entered the room |
Michael B. | thnx Russ, always open to new ones |
Russ N. | Michael: gravity is your friend, just like this guy says: http://youtube.com/watch?v=lRRDzFROMx0 (but don't watch it now on F2C bandwidth!!) |
alex i. | lafayette lies http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/63279 |
Mar 31 | 3:35 PM |
Gregory M. | Update: we're closer to solving issue: looks like possible bad wireless AP |
Tom M. | has entered the room |
alex i. | It
later turned out that SBC spent $192,324 on defeating the ballot
measure, while Comcast spent $89,740. Fiber for our Future, the
community group pushing the initiative, spent $4,325. |
Micah S. | has entered the room |
Fred C. | has left the room |
Doc S. | has entered the room |
Joshua A. | has entered the room |
Russ N. | The thing that I don't understand is why the incumbents fight municipal fiber. |
Brad T. | Titanic hit by an Isenberg |
Doc S. | This works again? |
Brett G. | has entered the room |
alex i. | "why innovate when you can litigate?" |
Russ N. | They
ought to just shrug, say "okay, in THIS town we compete by selling our
services on their fiber", move on, and spend there capital elsewhere. |
JoePlotkin | has entered the room |
Brad T. | Yes, though I'm pushing we switch to irc://freenode#f2c |
Aleecia M. | has entered the room |
Russ N. | alex, but all these shenanigans cost money. It's not like there's a shortage of places to run ftth. |
Brad T. | What were the first 6 digits of those macs? |
Tony A. | has entered the room |
alex i. | but if one suceeds people might think the telcablecos should do it |
Chris S. | has entered the room |
Doc S. | Murphy runs all networks. |
Russ N. | one of these days I want to establish a hedge fund which buys up stupid companies, makes them smart, and sells them again. |
Mike W. | has entered the room |
Ken D. | has entered the room |
Chris S. | So we need TSA on our network? |
Brad T. | He hasn't seen the movies lately. |
JoePlotkin | the freedom shit must end!! |
alex i. | Russ: most companies buy smart companies, make them stupid, and then sell |
Aleecia M. | if bad acting were illegal, L.A. would go bankrupt |
judi | yeah, where comcast runs the Fast Pass |
Doc S. | They look like they're gelding a cable. |
Frank P. | fixin' the dawg |
DirkvanderW | has entered the room |
Brett G. | has left the room |
Chris S. | "It's a Mac" |
Matt T. | has entered the room |
Adam | has entered the room |
Mar 31 | 3:40 PM |
Frank P. | Gilding the lily? |
Mike W. | It's a Mac, so I don't have to think |
Tree S. | gelding the lily. |
Matt T. | . |
Paul H. | has entered the room |
Russ N. | alex
i: examples abound, yes. But there's trillions and trillions of dollars
of value available to anybody who can fix big business. |
Brett G. | has entered the room |
marc | has entered the room |
Chris M. | has entered the room |
Steven C. | has entered the room |
marc | hello |
Frank P. | rich and robust |
Ken D. | Try convincing big business they need to be fixed. |
alex i. | google's plan: take the apps from the cellcos |
Adam M. | has entered the room |
Brad T. | This is not the Android we're looking for. You can go about your business. Move along. |
alex i. | use the force, brad |
Russ N. | Ken D: that's why you have to buy a controlling interest. Plus, that's how you make money from doing it. |
Brad T. | Once you lay down the dark fiber, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you it will. |
Ken D. | Ah, well, now for the investment community to kick in. |
Chris S. | The
FCC makes big problems for any 802.11 (wifi) chipset with open source
drivers. Will Android devices have open source wifi, or will they use
binary blobs? |
Paul H. | |
Brad T. | The radio drivers remain closed. |
Chris R. | has entered the room |
Chris S. | Boooo |
Mike W. | I want open androids. Those last androids you sold me were all closed. I had to terminate them. |
Brett G. | has left the room |
Brett G. | has entered the room |
Russ N. | BradT++ (dark fiber) |
Iz W. | has entered the room |
Brett G. | Municipalities
should not try to be ISPs. All sorts of First Amendment issues with
that. But they could deploy truly open infrastructure on which
providers can deliver -- just as municipalities build roads on which
you can have lots of private delivery trucks. |
Mike W. | He is describing basically what Symbian is today. |
Russ N. | BrettG++ (am I actually AGREEING with Brett?? :) |
Steven C. | In Brad's case, it's Darth Fiber |
Brad T. | The internet is not a truck! |
Brad T. | --Ted Stevens |
Brett G. | Russ Nelson agreeing with me? This has to be a first. |
JoePlotkin | its a series of tubes . . . |
Frank P. | no place on the interwebs to affix the license |
Chris S. | Steve
jobs says that releasing Firefox and Skype for the iPhone will result
in dead puppies. Restricted SDKs are good for America. |
shep | has entered the room |
AKMA | And the F2C tubes were tied |
Mar 31 | 3:45 PM |
alex i. | it's a bicycle |
Brett G. | Most of my customers just want to get on the InterWebMailSomeThingie. |
Brad T. | Based on the porn I've seen, it's a series of pubes. |
Mike W. | There are loads of municipal telcos and there have been since the invention of the phone. No 1st Amend issues here. Move along. |
Tree S. | that a fish needs |
Russ N. | that
"series of tubes" crap must have been how somebody explained Internet
routing to him, and all he remembered was "series of tubes" |
Brett G. | But they want it really bad. |
Ken D. | Darn, and all this time I thought it was a truck. |
Russ N. | and they want it really fast. |
alex i. | anyone pay $ for apps on cell phone? this would eliminate that cash but I don't know how big it is. android |
Brad T. | I can has bandwidth? |
Chris S. | Will Google store the video of my cat as long as it keeps my search records? |
alex i. | google knows the name of your cat |
Nathaniel J. | has entered the room |
Frank P. | that's the NSA's responsibility |
Brett G. | And they always ask, "How fast is it?" even though of course I can only control the speed of our end and not the other end. |
Chris S. | Google will mask one of the cat's paws after 18 months. |
Ken D. | No, but there may be money in selling your name to someone that targets yarn selling to cats. |
Russ N. | FrankP: THEY KNOW YOU SAID THAT! IT'S GOING IN YOUR PERMANENT RECORD! |
Frank P. | herrding cats is one thing, controlling the speed is something else |
Russ N. | When is the next squeaker? |
Brett G. | We're gonna need a litterbox. |
Iz W. | shameless client promotion: electric sheep on android http://draves.org/blog/archives/000549.html |
Frank P. | every android's dream |
Russ N. | Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? |
alex i. | this is all cool stuff but I feel I know most of it already |
Tree S. | she ( http://cubo.cc/ ) will help lay cable. |
alex i. | of course, google gets lots of press |
Chris S. | The solution is less carrier competition, right? Far less Q/A required. |
Aleecia M. | Yay electric sheep! Very pretty stuff. |
judi | now see here: http://freedom-to-connect.net/ (the schedule) |
Robert C. | has entered the room |
JoePlotkin | Android rage? |
Iz W. | Android dreams of Electric Sheep. |
Russ N. | tnx, judi |
Brad T. | |
Mike W. | what kind of platform will be necessary to operate the Android OS, one wonders? |
Brett G. | Something with lots of room for batteries. |
Russ N. | Oh, Open Wireless has already started... |
shep | these
three MAC addresses are responsible for the packet storms:
00:18:f8:ed:a7:dd 00:18:f8:ed:a7:f8 00:18:f8:ed:a7:8f , whenever some
other (probably innocent) machine sends an IP multicast packet, those
three devcices rapidly forward the packet back to the multicast address
on the local network. They hear each other's retransmissions of the
packet, so it results in a storm. |
David I. | thanks Tim |
Russ N. | |
Mary G. | has entered the room |
Chris S. | |
alex i. | shep how do we see our own MAC address |
Brad T. | Those mac addresses belong to linksys |
Mar 31 | 3:50 PM |
Chris S. | Someone with a linksys wifi card. |
alex i. | omigosh its the routers themselves doing the storms |
judi | View paste
|
Frank P. | soembody call Dr. House |
Adam M. | stupid smart networks! |
Brett G. | Probably those "Wireless N" routers. |
Brett G. | It's an "N to N" problem. |
Joshua A. | would
be interesting to hear how this "openness" makes platform better for
development than, say, Symbian or Windows Mobile (both of which are
good dev platforms) |
Chris S. | A youtube of applications sounds like too much freedom. I want the iPhone App store which will protect me from evil apps. |
Chris M. | Chris S. ++ |
AKMA | Chris, Apple is happy to provide taht for you |
Brett G. | Wrestling with carriers? |
dwitzel | has entered the room |
Chris S. | The only problem with Apple's iApp store is that adult content is verboten. |
Joshua A. | tivo works pretty well |
Chris S. | and we all know that porn drives technology |
Brett G. | I do it on BSD. No problems with the nasty Linux license. |
AKMA | Chris S, but you said you wanted a third party to filter out "evil". . . . |
Tom M. | pornographers do it on linux (?) :) |
judi | apple isn't linux. did he say it was? Apple is bsd. |
Adam M. | (wondering if Brett G's comment was a response to Chris S's comment) |
Tom M. | he just said 'unix' |
Angela S. | has entered the room |
Chris S. | Right. Firefox is an evil open source project. The adult industry is Fortune 500 controlled. |
Brad T. | Brett hates GPL, that's what he refers to. |
alex i. | packet storm issue may be fixable with firmware update? (or is that _caused by_ firmware update?) |
Brett G. | GPL is anti-business. It wouldn't be a good idea for Google to use it. |
Chris S. | How do I inhibit Sony from embedding a rootkit in my Android phone? |
Tree S. | consumer |
Mar 31 | 3:55 PM |
Joshua A. | anyone know how much google itself will open source? |
judi | chris: just don't install it. |
alex i. | Chris communicated with Sony three years ago; he has a business relationship with them under CAN SPAM |
Frank P. | who's OEMing the hardware? |
Joshua A. | i think htc is making a device |
Tree S. | best in show class act handset to be open source probably maybe |
Greg E. | has entered the room |
Chris S. | Will verizon disable bluetooth on its Android phones, as it did with its Motorola devices? |
Russ N. | htc makes everything handheld. |
Greg E. | Said the elephant, "I don't understand why everyone runs when away when I walk into the room. |
Frank P. | |
Chris S. | AT&T: you can have any kind of open device on our network, as long as it's a locked iPhone. |
Brad T. | Subsidies still crush us |
Russ N. | Verizon said in the last year that they plan to have open devices. |
Adam | has left the room |
Russ N. | BradT: I have been told that they crush the cell companies as well. |
Joshua A. | subsidies have their flaws but it sure is nice for most folks to not have to pay for a phone up front |
Russ N. | I was in a tech store in Brussels last year, and a 30' long aisle of cellphones was full of people shopping for phones. |
Tree S. | the very elderly. i think he's talking to me. |
Brett G. | Cell
phones are a tough business. Motorola got crushed all by themselves. To
the extent that they're spinning off their cell phone business to make
the balance sheet look better. |
Russ N. | Joshua: you sign the contract, and you ARE paying for the cellphone up front. |
Russ N. | Joshua: you're just financing the purchase over the lifetime of the contract. The invisible hand holds no magic wand. |
Joshua A. | lots of the real world has cash flow problems -- no cash out of pocket is a big deal |
shep | My
question: How likely is it that I'll be able to get an android-based
phone which would let me make a few changes, recompile, and reload the
phone? |
Mar 31 | 4:00 PM |
Chris S. | And will flashing it void my warranty? |
Russ N. | shep: as long as you accept that the firmware in the radio is locked down and inaccessible, 100% likely. |
shep | (could be anywhere from "very unlikel" to "very likely", and I'm very curious) |
Brad T. | Looking at it funny voids the warranty |
Russ N. | reflashing to a non-supported image *should* lose your warranty. |
alex i. | leadership council includes Soros and Wal Mart http://www.newamerica.net/about/leadership_council |
Brett G. | But
what if you put in software that inadvertently (or even intentionally)
caused a wireless meltdown like the one that happened on site this
morning? |
Richard B. | has entered the room |
Tony A. | but shep is actually smart enough TO reprogram the radio and make it better for everyone. |
Chris S. | Hopefully the Android networks won't be built on top of $30 linksys routers. |
alex i. | great publications http://www.newamerica.net/publications/articles |
Joshua A. | interesting
that this auction (with its "open" conditions on the C block) produced
no possible new entrant of scale, whereas AWS auction (which had no
such conditions) ended with cablecos having near-national footprint |
alex i. | should have just done unlicensed. look at 2.4 GHz |
Brett G. | Mandatory wholesale still leaves WISPs as sharecroppers |
Mike N. | has left the room |
Chris S. | It doesn't take poorly configured software to cause the cellular network to meltdown: It just takes an SMS flood (http://www.smsanalysis.org/) |
Brett G. | Whobert Heaver? |
Mar 31 | 4:05 PM |
Brad T. | Can't have that |
Chris S. | Now these churches resell their spectrum to others for $$ |
dwitzel | Eric Schmidt chairs their board -- http://www.newamerica.net/people/eric_schmidt |
Brett G. | "Analog technologies led to interference?" Waitaminnit. It's ALL analog. |
Danny O. | Amusing fact: Hoover was against advertising on the airwaves |
Ken D. | has left the room |
shep | his overall point is correct, but the notion that you can tell whether or not spectrum is being used or not is bogus. |
Chris S. | What % of that 70% is the military/government sitting on? |
alex i. | shep what about smart radios? cannot they co-use spectrum nicely? |
alex i. | share? |
JoePlotkin | we need to get a wider constituency for unlicensed principle |
Brad T. | If the NAB says it, it must be true. |
shep | I have no idea what "smart radios" might mean. |
Brad T. | And only about 15% of people get their tv over broadcast |
Brett G. | Not
true. There have been good results in detection who's using spectrum.
Especially if you create an etiquette where the user isn't shy about
letting you know. |
alex i. | a radio that adjusts the spectrum it uses based on the profile of noise it is hearing |
Frank P. | shep: no "CSMA/CD" for the airwaves |
Mike W. | smart radios and cognitive radios are two different things |
Frank P. | ? |
shep | The
more fundamental problem is that it is not possible to find a
reasonable definition for what it means for spectrum to be "used". |
Joshua A. | key issue is wireless microphones, which also use the same channels |
Brett G. | See my slides on why cognitive radio plus non-exclusive "light" licensing (like driver licensing) is the best option: http://www.brettglass.com/CR/ |
Nathaniel J. | smart radios: http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=cognit’Ķ |
Brett G. | There's some math there, but I explain it |
Brad T. | It's far too rational to get approved, alas. |
Ron S. | has entered the room |
Russ N. | shep++ |
Brad T. | Rock bands? |
Steven C. | hey, Nathaniel, SciAm isn't here, and we are: http://spectrum.ieee.org/feb07/4892 |
Russ N. | but on the other hand, if spectrum is split up by modulation type, then it *is* possible to detect the carrier. |
Mar 31 | 4:10 PM |
shep | Neither
"cognitive radio" nor "smart radio" mean much to me. I've heard both of
these buzzwords being used by well-meaning people many times in the
last decade. |
Russ N. | shep: do they mean SDR? |
Brett G. | There are lots of ways to split up the airwaves -- not only based on spectrum. In fact, some of the others are better. See http://www.brettglass.com/ISART/ |
Mike W. | |
David I. | |
shep | no need to "split up". The world between the antennas is remarkably linear. |
Frank P. | open wireless for all! |
Steven C. | "smart radios" is a general term, the more clearly defined ones are "SDR" and "cognitive radio" |
Brett G. | You do need to split up a signal space to disambiguate signals. The paper explains how and why.... |
shep | radio
waves (== photons) pass right through teach other with zero
interaction. (Physicists would say that the cross section of a photon
when interacting with another photon is zero.) |
DirkvanderW | has left the room |
marc | has left the room |
Brett G. | That's not what radio interference IS. It's not signals "hitting" one another. |
Brett G. | It's a receiver being unable to distinguish them. |
Russ N. | shep:
true enough, my point being that if modulation type is associated with
a frequency range then you can detect whether that frequency is being
used. |
Doc S. | Also Trolltech, which sold for $100 million to Nokia after Android sunk in. |
Tree S. | clap on clap off |
shep | Brett:
and that depends entirely on the receiver itself. There's no way to say
objectively whether or not two radio transmissions interfere with each
other. You need a receiver. And for any two radio transmissions, it is
possible to design a receiver which would demonstrate that interference
is occuring, and possible to design a receiver which would demonstrate
that both transmissions can be received without any interference. It
depends entirely on the reciever. |
Chris S. | mobile expert flashmob on the stage. |
Mar 31 | 4:15 PM |
Suw C. | Sorry, who is this chap? |
shep | BTW, "white space" seems mis-named to me. "Dark space" would make more sense. |
Chris S. | Google's telecom guy. |
Tree S. | the "made" man |
Robert C. | Richard Whitt |
Robert C. | He use to be with MCI / WCOM |
alex i. | he also wrote pro-competition briefs for MCI |
judi | with Google |
alex i. | they were very very good |
Steven C. | the term "whitespace" comes from graphic design |
alex i. | (robert c -- wish to comment on Whitt's FCC submissions) oh don't worry that's snark |
Suw C. | thanks. :D (blogging as best i can) |
Frank P. | tree... you don't want to go there... |
Iz W. | View paste
|
Chris S. | Googlers have donated $1 mil to federal campaigns in 2006 and 2008: http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/search.a’Ķ |
FACO | has left the room |
alex i. | $1 M is what a prez candidate raises in a day. it's spare change |
Iz W. | chris s I'm not sure that's the right use of the term "googlers" is it? |
Tony A. | googlers is the right term. |
Mar 31 | 4:20 PM |
Adam | has entered the room |
Iz W. | are you talking about employees, gifts from the corporation itself? not consumer users certainly. |
FACO | has entered the room |
Frank P. | googlists... ideological adherents |
Iz W. | it's not a term I recognize other than "I googled you today" |
Chris S. | googler = employee of the big G. |
Tree S. | googleizers |
Tree S. | trucker hat alert |
Frank P. | 404 on the .../f2c/ page |
Micah S. | a little hard to read his slide |
Iz W. | ok we get it let's get to the talk |
Tree S. | and ups delivery guy |
Brad T. | Lot of free time! |
alex i. | total comms/ electronics donations in 2006 http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indu’Ķ $70,597,552 |
Frank P. | |
Tree S. | sorry dsl, whatever it's called |
Tree S. | pls tk fstr |
Brad T. | Oh, yes, Wyoming! |
Iz W. | lol |
shep | the original wavelan was from NCR. (which of course was called Lucent later) |
Tree S. | fed ex aderall stat |
Iz W. | lol! |
Brad T. | We have ways of making you cooperative |
Tree S. | he'd be ready at 3 am |
Mar 31 | 4:25 PM |
Mike W. | Think Brown |
Tree S. | omg, lolicopter, mundane psychic |
alex i. | president glass is president glass again |
Mike W. | Brown to your door |
David I. | glass roots? |
AKMA | Alex I -- excellent |
Brad T. | With a name like Glass, why isn't he using fiber? |
Iz W. | does lariat really compete with comcast? |
Adam M. | has left the room |
Brad T. | Clearly Level 3 is scared of Brett |
JoePlotkin | who isnt? |
Iz W. | wonder what comcast's strategy to overtake lariat is |
Mike W. | like Canarie (Bill?) |
Iz W. | "we try harder"? |
Chris S. | Amtrak == broadband's one true hope? |
Tree S. | oh please do |
Brad T. | Howard Hughes bought a whole state. |
alex i. | I remember talking to williams about this -- they could have broke open the fiber in rural areas but chose not to |
Tree S. | great dinner guest i bet |
Iz W. | hijacking is a problem |
Heath R. | Amtrak on Rails? |
Chris S. | Because they are Satan? |
Mike W. | Broadbandits
by Om Malik has an entire chapter on this. And don't we all wish Om the
best. I hope he is watching or listening. |
Tree S. | could you just sign this |
Frank P. | pita what? like hummus? |
Gregory M. | Brett Glass: Bandwidth sharecropper |
JoePlotkin | among this crowd can we agree to us the term "common carraige" instead of net neutrality? |
alex i. | how to do it right: http://www.isp-planet.com/equipment/2003/c’Ķ |
Mar 31 | 4:30 PM |
Chris S. | The users are paying you each month for their service. |
Brad T. | Not getting paid anything? |
Frank P. | No Joe! |
alex i. | Parker's
appliances are designed to solve this problem by operating as a gateway
node, separating the external P2P network from the ISP's network. The
node makes all peers of P2P applications local to the ISP, rather than
external. This should reduce the distance traffic has to travel. |
Iz W. | david approaches the stage |
Mike W. | p to pee. Very bad for old men. |
Frank P. | ...the hook |
Richard B. | How about "common carnage?" |
Chris S. | As long as you get it from a major corporation. |
Tree S. | gong show |
Frank P. | common careless |
Iz W. | is p2p like pay to play? |
alex i. | urinetown |
Chris S. | No, we were using $30 hardware for 200 people. |
Brad T. | Certainly wouldn't want people actually using the new bandwidth. |
Chris S. | $10 per day to use bandwidth in London? |
Brad T. | The main goal of new bandwidth is so it can sit unused |
Tree S. | start music |
Iz W. | no chris, that's at starbucks |
Richard B. | P2P: Using other people's software to get other people's content over still other people's bandwidth. |
Joshua A. | localizing p2p works well with high bandwidth in last mile and scarcity of backhaul, just the opposite of brett's point here |
Brad T. | David ,don't you have musicians in residence? |
JoePlotkin | where you stand on p2p depends on your network architecture |
Tree S. | oh, i think you will |
alex i. | at F2C some time ago, Martin Geddes argued for TOS disclosure like the rules on APR in credit card ads |
Tree S. | falls down in heap of exhaustion |
Iz W. | yay martin geddes |
Russ N. | JoshuaA: but the p2p has to be legal[ized]. |
Chris S. | Alex: Because most users understand their credit card ToS? |
Brad T. | I can pronounce that |
Iz W. | actually we're just tough on brett |
Russ N. | Otherwise the ISP becomes just another victim of the MafIAA. |
JoePlotkin | see the P4P inititiative |
Chris S. | How will universal default apply to broadband? |
alex i. | |
alex i. | hey i never said it would be perfect, just better |
stage | has entered the room |
Frank P. | |
Chris S. | The problem isn't a lack of clear ToS. Its that the major ISPs have no competition, and treat their customers as the enemy. |
Mar 31 | 4:35 PM |
MichaelMaranda | who's on? |
alex i. | partly because congress caves in regularly to the cc companies http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008’Ķ |
Doc S. | Brett,
what percentage of your traffic is porn? That's a serious question.
I've heard the number is higher than 70%, and that nobody is willing to
talk about it. Figger that you're here and might tell us, if you know. |
Frank P. | chris: not enemy, sheep for the shearing |
Russ N. | Only monopolies get away with treating their customers as the enemy. |
Chris S. | And duopolies too. |
Danny O. | Brett, is there any competition for Lariat in Wy now? |
Frank P. | russ: not enemy, hogs for the slaughter |
alex i. | Doc,
I know one network aggregator that imitated Akamai failed because its
"smart accelerator" was doing mostly porn. no % data tho |
David I. | doc that's deeper packet inspection than we want to have |
Matt T. | Glenn Strachan |
Doc S. | Also,
Brett, how much is the bittorrent upstream issue exacerbated (or not)
by asymmetry? Is it different on wireless than it is on wired or
fibered? |
alex i. | glenn rocks |
alex i. | brett's not at his PC right now |
Doc S. | I'll take my answers off the air. Or the wall. |
Matt T. | it should be on the stage monitor |
Russ N. | I can't imagine being on a panel and trying to type at the same time. Suw could do it; I couldn't. |
Nathaniel J. | has left the room |
Tree S. | ubiquitous count: 6 |
marc | has entered the room |
alex i. | macedonia's not as bad as serbia, but there are issues there too! |
Tony A. | Tree: are you trying to get a drinking game going? |
Iz W. | what are you saying, russ? that your right-hand-only keyboard isn't working? |
Tree S. | my drinking days are over. just counting. |
Chris S. | Every kid in Macedonia has a linux computer at school: http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS7546509093.html |
alex i. | shep wins best camera |
Tree S. | i like this guy |
Maureen D. | has entered the room |
Mar 31 | 4:40 PM |
Iz W. | go glenn! he's like a wireless juggernaut |
Tree S. | pineridge could use him |
alex i. | corruption the biggest issue |
Iz W. | I have an idea - Google should sponsor this stuff. Hey guys, heads up! |
Chris S. | Since Hillary's Connect America plan was broken, wan we adopt Macedonia Connects for rural USA instead? |
alex i. | google willing to insert text ads into fireside chat? |
Richard B. | Wi-Fi's symmetrical, Doc. |
Doc S. | David, don't forget Trolltech. |
Chris S. | 400,000 iphones in China. |
Tree S. | i'm serious about pineridge. i'm going to email him. |
Suw C. | chumby! |
Brad T. | It would be nice if my bedroom window could tell me the weather. |
JoePlotkin | open windows? |
AKMA | I have a watch that would be cool if it told me the time of day |
Jim R. | joePlokin++ |
Tom M. | use a screen to keep the digital flies out |
Russ N. | iz: no, the single-hand keyboard works fine. It's a brain function. Only one output channel works at a time. |
Suw C. | i still want a chumby. open hardware++ |
Jim R. | I have two watches I never know what time it is. |
Tom M. | akma -- 24 hour time |
Russ N. | chumby ftw |
Tony A. | I stopped wearing a watch when my phone started telling me the time of day. |
Brad T. | Does anybody really know what time it is? |
Chris S. | Will Chinese ISPs be able to block Tibet searches on Chinese Android devices? |
Tom M. | i need gps to tell me where I'm at. |
alex i. | firewall of china's at the core, not the edge |
Tree S. | time's an illusion. |
JoePlotkin | Lots of people tell me where to go . . . |
Tom M. | later than you think, brad. |
Brad T. | No, it's built into google.cn |
AKMA | Lunch time, doubly so |
Chris R. | has left the room |
Jim R. | the real reason they make you turn off your phone on the airplane is so you don't know how late they are |
Tree S. | or allusion. |
Chris S. | And into skype.cn |
alex i. | HHG: when shall we have lunch? |
Iz W. | brad, time keeps on slippin' into the future. |
Tree S. | future |
Tree S. | future |
Iz W. | lol |
Russ N. | TonyA I have a modern pocket watch. It always has the right time until it runs out of battery. |
Brad T. | I, for one, would like to fly like an eagle. |
Mar 31 | 4:45 PM |
Chris S. | Because you can't run the same apps on Debian and Redhat, right? |
judi | brad: SL |
Tom M. | eagle can't see its wristwatch |
Russ N. | same apps, yes, same packaging system, only sometimes. |
Doc S. | Building on Linux is like building houses on frame construction. It can be anything. |
Joshua A. | challenge
is getting same app to run across phones with little screens and big
screens, keyboards and no keyboards, cameras and not, etc |
alex i. | eagle sees _your_ wristwatch from a mile above |
JoePlotkin | Brad and Iz: you might owe Steve Miller some royalties |
Iz W. | brad: there's a solution! |
alex i. | Soc, you would know |
Frank P. | when is ride the fire eagle danger day? |
alex i. | Doc |
Doc S. | When will we open source it, and for whom? |
Russ N. | public performance and stuff. |
Brad T. | Didn't SUN open up java? |
AKMA | oc takes photo of your watch from airplane window |
Tree S. | like a rock |
AKMA | s/oc/Doc |
alex i. | Did MSFT close the java window? |
Russ N. | JoshuaA: yes, it's extremely difficult to make an application portable between screen sizes, keyboards, optional I/O. |
Tree S. | yeah, if you're in korea |
Jim R. | came in through the bathroom window. |
Chris S. | 2 year contracts for Android devices then, plus 175 termination fees |
Russ N. | Yes, Sun opened up Java. GPL3 |
Doc S. | Andoid on open source: http://code.google.com/android/kb/licensin’Ķ |
Tom M. | If I'm on the airplane, I can take the picture myself; why do i need oc? |
Adam | so
if verizon look like they are going back on their commitments to
openness, isn't it up to us, whether the us is Google, or us as
consumers, to keep reminding that they made those commitments. |
Tree S. | first there is a mountain |
Frank P. | mona lisa |
Tony A. | My next portable phone... http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/categorie’Ķ |
AKMA | Then there is no mountain |
Russ N. | then there is no mountain |
Brad T. | Then there is |
alex i. | the mountain came to mohammed |
Mike W. | has left the room |
Tree S. | then there is |
Brad T. | I'd rather be a hammer than a snail |
Chris S. | In that big corporations destroy it, and pay trivial royalties |
Tom M. | first there is no mountain, then your legs start to hurt. |
Frank P. | oxygen auction!!! |
Brad T. | We auction spectrum to _assure_ a tragedy. |
AKMA | El aguila pasa? |
Joshua A. | could spend the whole day debating question of whether spectrum is actually a scarce resource |
Tree S. | O2 be free |
Doc S. | If we make a bigger commons, can we have a bigger tragedy? |
Chris S. | Tough crowd. |
Mar 31 | 4:50 PM |
Tree S. | running face recog now |
Brad T. | Spectrum rangers! |
Robert C. | Do you pay a fee to visit the natl mall? |
alex i. | http://www.isp-planet.com/fixed_wireless/p’Ķ Calabrese: spectrum sold at 10 % of value (but isn't value of spectrum over infinite time an infinite value?) |
Gregory M. | right on RIch! |
Brad T. | The Ohm Ranger. |
Chris S. | Google totally respects the property rights of book publishers though |
AKMA | Sitting up in cell towers to watch for wifires |
Iz W. | let's get him up onstage in a dunk tank and start throwing balls at the target |
shep | actually, it is scarce. But the scarcity is created by the regulation of it. |
Frank P. | alex... or does it go to zero? |
alex i. | some bands have free licenses. 11, 18 GHz are filling up |
Brad T. | Spectrum ownership is a monopoly |
Frank P. | AKMA ++ |
Adam | when have auctions worked well? |
alex i. | value = spectrum x time x $ --> increase without bound |
Russ N. | alex i: no, nothing gets valued over infinite time. |
Danny O. | has entered the room |
Iz W. | adam - for ebay's bottom line |
Doc S. | I love the Ohm Ranger. Is his reciprocal the Mho Ranger? (Yes, the Mho is a measure of conductivity.) |
Russ N. | the valuation on things goes down over time until it's zero. |
JoePlotkin | look at the economic value created by putting 2.4 Ghz into peoples hands! |
Frank P. | rus ++ |
alex i. | if the government grants you land indefinitely, the $ loss is theoretically infinite |
Frank P. | russ |
Joshua A. | don't forget time value of money |
Brad T. | I told you whitespace was so rational that it had to be opposed. |
shep | I
argue it is not a "resource" because there's no way to tell whether or
not it is being "used" (in the sense that if its being used it cannot
be also used by something else at the same time). |
Danny O. | Chris S. -- don't bring fair use into this, otherwise we're all in trouble |
Steven C. | the
entire Adirondaks has no fees. Nat'l Forests have no fees. Users have
boycotted fees in the White Mtns. Fees are the exception, not the rule,
on parklands. |
Gregory M. | or until it asymptopically approaches zero |
Russ N. | alex i: but no, they charge you taxes. |
alex i. | you can price a 90 year lease or a 5 year lease but cannot price an indefinite lease |
Frank P. | I'll gladly pay you tuesday for an ounce of gold today |
Iz W. | cerfing the net |
Chris S. | The barons of mountain view. |
Gregory M. | Brett Glass broadband sharecropper |
alex i. | what price aristocracy? $40 billion |
Brad T. | Serfs, Cerfs or Surfs? |
Tree S. | hang ten |
Jim R. | all of which leaves the consumer out in the cold |
Tree S. | little guys |
Steven C. | Yosemite=municipal Disneyland. it's a tragedy, hardly a model for anything, let alone spectrum policy |
Brad T. | Nobody should get a monopoly |
Gregory M. | steven c++ |
Joshua A. | cellular market areas are actually pretty small |
Joshua A. | |
Chris S. | Roads cost money to build. Spectrum was here already. |
Tree S. | and he's off |
alex i. | the free spectrum bears are breaking into the parked SUVs of open spectrum |
Tree S. | where the f is little bo peep |
Jim R. | it my party and I'll rant if I want to. |
Russ N. | I support the right to keep and arm free spectrum bears. |
Tom M. | they are putting their paws into the beehive of whitespace |
AKMA | David has a strong moral fiber |
Brad T. | Spectrum is like a range of frequencies for electromagnetism. |
Steven C. | actually,
it's a lousy model, but a great analogy - Yosemite got the way it did
because the consessionaire seduced the "regulator" (Nat'l Park Service) |
Mar 31 | 4:55 PM |
Tree S. | bee-wear of the analogies |
Mar 31 | 4:55 PM |
alex i. | the unmanaged wilderness is being destroyed and soon none will be able to use it |
alex i. | tree +++ |
Frank P. | pave paradise |
Brad T. | I need a bigger hummer. |
Tom M. | that is some big beehive1 |
Iz W. | alex - that is in fact the real issue |
Russ N. | The
regulated have a concentrated interest in controlling the regulator.
Not so the "beneficiaries" of the regulation. They have a diffuse
interest. |
Tom M. | put up a prking lot |
Tree S. | build up a scarcity lot |
Chris S. | Comcast just needs to stop using so much of its bandwidth for TV. |
Joshua A. | fiber and wireless aren't 100% comparable |
Paul H. | has left the room |
Brad T. | Smoke those poles! |
Russ N. | alex i: come visit me. I'll show you more unregulated wilderness than you can handle. |
Heath R. | Support the Nature Conservancy, please |
Joshua A. | never stopped many of us |
Steven C. | the
wilderness can be regulated but unlcensed, just like wi-fi. in fact,
that's how much of it is managed today, and it works just fine |
Iz W. | cisco's also got something in the oven. |
Tree S. | 100 bumbles on the pole |
alex i. | gordon always knows about it first |
Brad T. | Iz has something in the oven, too. |
Tom M. | 802.11 why? |
Tree S. | whoa |
Tree S. | i'll drive |
Tom M. | nothing sez lovin' like something in the oven. |
Doc S. | If Peter Ecclesine is right about 802.11y, it'll be bigger than wi-fi. |
Heath R. | And with that, let's end this chat |
Tree S. | well one of the wireless panel was certainly wired IMO |
Tom M. | what???? |
Iz W. | lol |
Chris M. | has left the room |
Greg E. | has left the room |
Tom M. | tree +++ |
Brad T. | Must be pleasant to win. |
Suw C. | bribery!! |
Tree S. | please do |
Brad T. | Ok, now're talking something decent. |
Tree S. | 2gig!!! |
Tree S. | 5x2= |
Tree S. | orville popcorn? |
Mar 31 | 5:00 PM |
Brad T. | Yes, but 23,000,000,000 internet voters prefer it. |
alex i. | all of those internet voters were named "rnpual2012bot" |
Jim R. | has left the room |
Tom M. | one piece of popcorn for each of them, sez orville. |
Tree S. | what rough beast? |
Tom M. | 25-26? |
Tony A. | Unrelated to voting... Does anyone want to have a PGP key signing party tonight or tomorrow? |
Frank P. | has left the room |
Brad T. | We used to vote without fingers? |
Brett G. | Purple fingers |
alex i. | Brad you've thought long and hard about this |
Tree S. | i can look it up? |
Brad T. | That's how Cicciolina got elected |
Iz W. | I
need to make a quick official announcement about a partner conference
that promoted F2C in their blog and newsletter. You may be interested
in attending the New Communications Forum in Sonoma CA April 22-25.
Brochures are on display at the registration table. Thank you! |
alex i. | it's voting incubator! |
Aleecia M. | has left the room |
Tree S. | give one to paynter so he can tell me |
Iz W. | |
Tom M. | |
AKMA | Give Frank the finger? |
Micah S. | i think we should have OSDV speaking at Personal Democracy Forum in June...agree? |
Russ N. | Doc S: you know Peter Ecclesine?? Where is he now? |
Tree S. | that too |
Suw C. | again, it is possible that some problems neither need nor readily submit to a technical solution. |
Mar 31 | 5:05 PM |
AKMA | Micah: Agree, emphatically |
Iz W. | tree did you know we are sitting right next to each other? |
Tree S. | but i meant the brochures which was mooted by the link... |
alex i. | agree that digital machines without paper trail will never be trustworthy |
JoePlotkin | yes Micah |
Tom M. | micah - good thoght |
Micah S. | hmm...this could be a great way to curate a conference... |
Tree S. | franklin may have mentioned it. but i have no idea of your gender or stats |
Micah S. | poll the audience at prior audience |
Suw C. | it's the black box problem. if i can't see what goes on inside the box, how do i know my vote's been recorded? |
alex i. | ++ black box problem |
Iz W. | |
Russ N. | Suw C: because the poll watchers trust the voting system, and they don't trust each other. |
Iz W. | it's a nice restaurant |
Iz W. | yay google and BT |
Iz W. | intermediate yay verizon! |
shep | has left the room |
Adam | has left the room |
Russ N. | Bluetooth? |
Heath R. | Ta, all |
Tony A. | has left the room |
Russ N. | Too many initialisms. |
Heath R. | has left the room |
Russ N. | enjoy dinner..... |
Tree S. | @Iz: concord? i hail from mass. |
Micah S. | Sunlight, bigger than Google! |
Iz W. | actually I need to update we live in sudbury now |
Tree S. | weston |
MichaelMaranda | great job |
Iz W. | wow tree right next door |
JoePlotkin | Drinks!!!!!! |
Mar 31 | 5:10 PM |
Iz W. | joe: yeah! |
JoePlotkin | none for you tho |
Iz W. | yeah, I was sadly just kidding |
Tree S. | must go to sleep now. but this made me hungry. 11:10 here in nw france. |
MichaelMaranda | have fun everyone - thinking of you in dreary chicago |
Jonas B. | has left the room |
Michael W. | has left the room |
Joshua A. | has left the room |
Chris S. | has left the room |
Danny O. | has left the room |
Tree S. | been a pleasure. |
Tree S. | has left the room |
Mar 31 | 5:15 PM |
David I. | has entered the room |
David I. | the other David Isenberg arrives. |
Russ N. | has left the room |
Maureen D. | has left the room |
David I. | has left the room |
Gregory M. | has left the room |
Francois L. | has left the room |
Michael B. | has left the room |
Frank H. | has left the room |
alex i. | has left the room |
Matt T. | has left the room |
Robert C. | has left the room |
dwitzel | has left the room |
David I. | has entered the room |
Mar 31 | 5:20 PM |
Suw C. | has left the room |
Joe C. | has left the room |
matthew b. | has left the room |
AKMA | has left the room |
John B. | has left the room |
Brad T. | has left the room |
Tom M. | has left the room |
Micah S. | has left the room |
Doc S. | has left the room |
JoePlotkin | has left the room |
Steven C. | has left the room |
Iz W. | has left the room |
Mary G. | has left the room |
Angela S. | has left the room |
Ron S. | has left the room |
judi | has left the room |
Mar 31 | 5:25 PM |
Danny O. | has left the room |
Sascha M. | has left the room |
David I. | has left the room |
Brett G. | has left the room |
FACO | has left the room |
stage | has left the room |
Mar 31 | 5:30 PM |
Timothy D. | has entered the room |
David I. | has left the room |
Mar 31 | 5:35 PM |
broadcast | has left the room |
Mar 31 | 5:40 PM |
Lars k. | has entered the room |
Mar 31 | 5:50 PM |
Timothy D. | has left the room |
Mar 31 | 6:00 PM |
Stig H. | has left the room |
Lars k. | has left the room |
Mar 31 | 6:10 PM |
Richard B. | has left the room |
Mar 31 | 8:35 PM |
John J. | has entered the room |
Mar 31 | 8:55 PM |
John J. | has left the room |
Mar 31 | 10:35 PM |
Tony A. | has entered the room |
Mar 31 | 10:40 PM |
Tony A. | has left the room |
Robert C. | has entered the room |
Robert C. | What? U guys still here? Go home! |
Mar 31 | 10:55 PM |
Robert C. | has left the room |
Tuesday, April 1 ’Üí