F2C Day 2 ’Äî Tuesday, April 1

Apr 1
5:00 AM
judi
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judi
turned on guest access
Apr 1
6:30 AM
judi
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Apr 1
7:15 AM
judi
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Apr 1
7:30 AM
broadcast
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Apr 1
7:40 AM
judi
View paste 
Quicktime broadcast:
  rtsp://harmony.law.harvard.edu/f2c.sdp
Guest access to the chat:
  https://f2c08.campfirenow.com/e41c1
Apr 1
7:50 AM
stage
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Apr 1
8:15 AM
Heath R.
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Apr 1
8:30 AM
Turk
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AKMA
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Michael W.
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AKMA
Heath, are you in DC? I'm assuming not, but if you're here I want to say Hi
AKMA
s/DC/Silver Spring
Apr 1
8:35 AM
judi
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Quicktime broadcast:
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Jim R.
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Heath R.
I am in DC, AKMA. Would love to hang out at some point. Will look for you during the break!
Iz W.
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Glenn S.
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Aaron W.
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AKMA
Will check in, have to leave at midday
Adam
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Apr 1
8:40 AM
Iz W.
Bruce is brilliant
Iz W.
Jim R.
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Jim R.
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Jim R.
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Jim R.
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Micah S.
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Apr 1
8:45 AM
Micah S.
I feel more secure already
Izumi A.
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Chris M.
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Michael W.
Jim R.
where would we be without F5
Aleecia M.
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judi
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Apr 1
8:50 AM
Katy S.
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Apr 1
8:50 AM
Mary B.
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Brad T.
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Steven C.
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Michael B.
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Dave W.
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Chris R.
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Brett G.
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Brad T.
Nothing, and everything
Aleecia M.
That's one of the best intros I've ever heard
Brett G.
A thousand points of light?
Brad T.
Brett G.
Man is born good, but...
Brad T.
Are they a minority in the house, now?
Iz W.
Is there a minority in the house?
Brett G.
The Internet is the most human thing in the world, because it was entirely designed by humans. Which is obviously both good and bad....
Brett G.
Not to mention the Numa Numa dance.
Apr 1
8:55 AM
Mary B.
Contrary to yesterday's comment Portland's Community Fiber Net is very much alive! The WiFi project is facing some challenges but the PDX CFN has unanimous City Council support! Fiber Up!
Brett G.
View paste 
Cowboy up
Cowboy down
Brett G.
Cowboy sideways
Iz W.
go mary beth! way to stick up for your fiber!
Paul B.
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Dean L.
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Dean L.
hello all
Brett G.
Privacy is necessary for democracy due to bad actors. If you assume everyone is good, you can claim there is no need for privacy
AKMA
Hi, Dean
David I.
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Apr 1
9:00 AM
Brad T.
No Brett, it requires more than good, it requires sainthood
Apr 1
9:00 AM
Chris M.
Brett, he just pointed out that people nonetheless want privacy (compensation example--safety doesn't require that you disclose your comp)
judi
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Brad T.
"Honey, why did you vote differently from me?" You're innocent, but you have something to hide.
AKMA
This "human nature" and "sainthood" topic brings the discourse to my turf
Brett G.
Innocent? Depends on whom you voted for. ;-)
Brad T.
I don't want to see my doctor nude
AKMA
You don't have my PCP
Brad T.
You selling angel dust?
Brad T.
(Yes, I know it means primary care physician)
Tony A.
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AKMA
Saints, goodness, and now angels -- who knew F2C would be so theological
Brett G.
Daemons
Adam
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David I.
What he said about interrogation rooms: http://isen.com/blog/2008/02/24000-torture’Ķ
Tom M.
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Apr 1
9:05 AM
Chris S.
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Tom M.
Hi y'all.
Brett G.
(Picks up gun) Hello? Hello? [POW]
judi
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Tom M.
policy not equal to any formula.
FACO
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JoePlotkin
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Tom M.
The objections to *writing* itself were of the same sort as to subsequent subsequent innovations.
AKMA
Education is another area where technological disruption is having/will have even greater disruptive effects (if we let it)
Brad T.
Look where writing has gotten us.
Apr 1
9:10 AM
Tom M.
don't you mean *read* where writing has gotten us?
Brett G.
Where are we?
Chris S.
some rights are more equal than other rights
Chris S.
Bruce is calling for an end to the war on drugs?
Dean L.
the rise of the digital grandma (that scallywag!)
AKMA
Seat belt laws, motorcycle helmets
David I.
Chris ending it would be a GOOD IDEA!!!
David I.
Phasers on stun, folks!
Brett G.
Would Bruce want his books to be copied for free?
David I.
Brett, I hope you ask this in Q&A
AKMA
You may have free PDFs of my books, Brett; I write to be read, not to be paid
Chris R.
Some rights, in combination, make a wrong.
Michael W.
View paste 
I like this quote:

"It is becoming unprecedentedly difficult for anyone, anyone at all, 
to keep a secret. In the age of the leak and the blog, of evidence 
extraction and link discovery, truths will either out or be outed, 
later if not sooner. This is something I would bring to the attention
 of every diplomat, politician and corporate leader: the future, 
 eventually, will find you out. The future... will have its way with 
 you. In the end, you will be seen to have done that which you did."
  -- William Gibson
Apr 1
9:15 AM
Chris S.
Chris S.
looks like a warez site though
Brett G.
E-bookie?
Brad T.
The EFF's lawyers are very nice people.
Dean L.
Braad . . . ya think?
Chris S.
Yo Bruce, I see no mention of free digital copies of your books on your own website (http://www.schneier.com/books.html) - can you provide us a URL?
Dean L.
that second a was for attorney
Brad T.
I blame Microsoft
Brett G.
They've got too many political parties to fit on one spreadsheet?
shep
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Apr 1
9:20 AM
Paul H.
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Brett G.
Uh-oh. Watch out for those bloggers.
Brad T.
It was a British Isles NGO. (And BINGO was its name-o)
Brad T.
In Europe, the government has to know everything about you so it can protect your privacy.
Joshua A.
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Brad T.
Never piss off a group of under-employed bloggers.
Dean L.
what!!! an underemployed blogger?
Jim R.
dean anyone that has time to blog
Jim R.
is an underemployed blogger
Dean L.
++JR
Apr 1
9:25 AM
Steven C.
Dean, there's always the flip-side.... overworked bloggers (i.e., everyone whose job includes blogging) blogs at work)
Dean L.
that would be an overemployed blogger
Micah S.
Brad T.
See, technology can turn everything upside-down!
Chris S.
sounds like the UK needs opensecrets.org and http://www.washingtonwatch.com
Brad T.
He's not our regular drummer
David I.
careful, Howard Levy's son is a drummer!
FACO
has left the room
David I.
Miles Levy might even sit in this afternoon . . .
AKMA
If he's not writing Linux drivers
David I.
Ha Ha!
Brad T.
Not another anti-DRM, linux device driver writing pop band drummer.
Tom M.
jazz and blues, brad; jazz andblues.
David I.
Miles can juggle knives too . . .
Brad T.
Java and bluetooth you mean.
David I.
while drumming and writing Linux drivers
Tom M.
anyone can do that -- as long as you aren't afraid of blood...
AKMA
"Waggy finger orgainzation" -- will remember that one
JoePlotkin
usually drummers prefer limo drivers
David I.
You belong to one akma
Brad T.
Volume, volume, volume.
Apr 1
9:30 AM
AKMA
Not when I preach
Tom M.
are your sermons on youtube, akma?
Brad T.
I am Sew of ORG, you shall be assimilated
AKMA
None on YouTube, a few mp3s out there
Brad T.
Ha
Chris S.
Isn't China's position on human rights a joke?
Tom M.
"a major u. in the uk" -- would that be cambridge or oxford?
Chris S.
AKMA, thats you, right?
Brad T.
My father can beat your father at dominos.
AKMA
That is I
Steven C.
yes Tom, the waggy finger universities
Chris S.
he wrote a keylogger.
AKMA
Saints, angels, goodness, priests
AKMA
preaching, waggy fingers
Dirk
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Tom M.
Perhaps G-d is a terminate and stay resident process (just a thought).
Brad T.
And now, one by one, the stars are going out.
Aleecia M.
Christ will fg again?
Apr 1
9:35 AM
Dirk
View paste 
British Telecom's Secret Phorm Trial
Tracked 18,000 users and forgot to tell them all....
08:43AM Tuesday Apr 01 2008 by Karl
In the States, providers like Wide Open West have started using
behavioral advertising tracking technology from NebuAD, and the 
only way users would have known is if they checked the FAQ or TOS. 
UK telco British Telecom took things one step further by testing 
UK behavioral ad system Phorm on 18,000 users without telling 
anyone.
David I.
Dirk ++
David I.
Please ask about this!
Tom M.
an Arthur C. Clarke reference sneaks in -- he, certainly, was a TSR process.
Brad T.
You mean they all had keyloggers?
Dirk
AKMA
Tenor a month; they always neglect us basses
Chris S.
Does Bruce have any say in this? He's the CTO of BT's managed security firm, not the BT mothership
Brett G.
I did a keylogger for the IBM PC in something like 1984. In aseembler. It was a way to recover what I had written if the machine crashed.
Dirk
Even during the early phase of the BT/Phorm deal that the technical report describes, the pair were preparing to spin the technology to the public. "121Media [Phorm] will take action (both technical and public relations) to avoid any perception that their system is a virus, malware or spyware and to show that in effect it is a positive web development," BT wrote in the report.
Brad T.
Like Bird Flu
Brett G.
"Cluck flu?"
AKMA
Click flu
David I.
:-)
Brad T.
Keep strutting and fretting upon the stage, Danny.
Tony A.
Brett: Wouldn't it have been easier to write a TSR which autosaves your work periodically?
Brett G.
Shall I compare thee to...
Apr 1
9:40 AM
Tom M.
"The values of any culture are often expressed as human rights." Is that what D. said?
Chris S.
It's not waterboarding if it's done by Americans.
Glenn S.
View paste 
Off the Subject but from Yesterday, this headline 
from today's press -Presidential Candidates Not Exciting Telecom 
Industry, Survey Shows Preliminary results from our survey of 
communications industry professionals suggest that neither Barack 
Obama, Hillary Clinton nor John McCain are conveying a compelling 
position on communications technology.
Brad T.
Turned out they only wanted to takedown copies of Terry Gilliam's "Brazil" from youtube.
Iz W.
no chris, waterboarding is not torture if done by americans.
Tony A.
Oh, it's still waterboarding. We are just trying to say it isn't torture. Repeat a lie long enough and some people believe it.
Chris S.
Tor is illegal in Brazil eh?
AKMA
View paste 
This thou perceivest, which makes thy net more strong,
To love that Web which thou must leave ere long.
Brett G.
The key logger saved to a nonvolatile RAM card whose contents could later be saved to disk.
Joshua A.
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Tom M.
th' expense of spirit in a waste of shame is tcp/ip in action do i have thatright?
Jim R.
all you need is a dense population
Brett G.
But back then you used floppies and swapped them a lot, so you didn't want to just do a disk write.
Brad T.
Beebtube
Brett G.
Third party ISPs were hit even harder than BT.
Brett G.
They were paying twice to deliver the bits -- once for upstream and once to deliver them downstream.
Chris S.
BitTorrent with same-network favouritism would have solved the issues created by the BBC youtube.
Brett G.
Alas, it wouldn't have. It would have lowered the upstream charges but massively increased the local loop charges.
Apr 1
9:45 AM
Chris S.
Ok, well, yes.. but presumably, BT could/should have charged less for the local stuff.
Brett G.
It's the most expensive part of their network.
Brad T.
Why don't they all just ask their cable company to get the BBC America channel?
Chris S.
oink.cd (and it's replacement, waffle.fm) are closed networks, and they're pretty amazing.
shep
Brad T.
Protecting you from the Golden Shower of foreign data
Brett G.
The Great Firewall of China is not an impenetrable wall. It's a crumbly wall that drops stones on you at random.
Iz W.
probably whyville
Chris S.
Like the lead paint on our toys. It flakes with a tiny bit of prodding.
Brad T.
Great wall: Failing to repel mongol hordes for 2 thousand years
Brad T.
So we should be able to buy pollution trading credits for privacy leaks.
Brett G.
Toxic waste
Tony A.
We're afraid to throw our data away AND afraid to keep it.
Chris S.
Isn't it easier just to put an industry goon in charge of the EPA?
JoePlotkin
lets all recycle our bits
Apr 1
9:50 AM
Chris S.
Bruce needs a better lawyer.
Steven C.
Tony ++
Brett G.
This message printed with 100% recycled electrons.... No atoms were smashed during the making of this message
David I.
is "security theatre" an operative concept on line?
Brad T.
Cute, David
David I.
I associate it with TSA stuff and govt stuff, but how about on line?
Brad T.
I mean here we are talking about security in a theater with Bruce
Tony A.
Brett: Actually not. This transcript will live for years on some server. It cost real physical magnetic media.
Chris S.
Bruce - if you get offered Chertoff's job as head of DHS under Obama, will you take it?
David I.
Phorm
Brett G.
What you mean to say is that you spent physical media on it.
Brett G.
You could have chosen not to.
David I.
Bruece for Homeland Security Czar!
Brad T.
Back to the ministry of information
Chris S.
Security Theatre 2.0 (now enhanced by TwoFish)
Brad T.
It's like if the NSA ran GMail
Brad T.
Without telling you
David I.
Bruce, you don't HAVE to serch on google
Brett G.
[Imitates Alfred Hithcock:] Gooooooodevening.
Adam
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David I.
you don't HAVE to use Gmail
Brett G.
The googleplex
Brad T.
Goopologists
Chris S.
That is, unless your university adopts gmail/google apps.
Iz W.
Tony, actually we are not allowed to throw it away.
Chris S.
What if I cover my data with peanut butter?
JoePlotkin
somehow Orwellian doesnt seem severe enuf adjective
Aleecia M.
And you don't have to do rural farming?
Brad T.
Depends on the dog.
David I.
so it is different than a quasi-monopoly infrastructure provider
Adam
and project canoe seems to be doing the same thing for cable -- clickstream monitoring in the set-top box
Brad T.
The dog has a live webcam
shep
It's like the dog taking a photo of you naked.
Brad T.
But that means the internet knows he's a dog
Brett G.
On the Internet, you wouldn't know he was a dog without the Webcam
Jim R.
so that why the dog was rolling over and laughing.
Iz W.
hi gerry!
Apr 1
9:55 AM
Steven C.
think how efficient it would be if the U.S. head of DHS and the UK Minister of Security were one and the same person
Brett G.
I want a bloggie bag
Chris S.
What is Orbitz's policy w/regard to passenger's meal choices. Can the FBI come to you and ask for every passenger who has requested a muslim friendly meal?
Brad T.
The wreck of the Data Valdez
Brett G.
All those poor seabirds coated in toxic data
Drew C.
has entered the room
Iz W.
too bad we don't have flickr pictures of george bush in his fraternity days
Dean L.
does one have to pick up after one's cyberdogs?
Tom M.
cyberpoop?
Brett G.
Moore's (or is it More's) Law
Chris S.
Companies have to pay for backup tapes that they can later misplace
Adam
so how do we get the Internet to learn to forget? And what bits.
Drew C.
Google: On the Internet, no one know that you are a naked dog.
Brad T.
And then in the future, the AIs can go back and examine it.
Iz W.
I gotta get me some kibbles and bits
David I.
Saving it is one thing, retrieving it is another
Brad T.
However, I, for one, welcome our new robot overlords.
Dean L.
so this is whatthe NSA means by "grooming"
David I.
If it is on tape, who's gonna search it?
Brett G.
Fortunately, most people are very bad at writing search terms.
judi
so web 3.0 / semantic web will make a whole new story out of this marginal value data
Chris S.
And yet you were somehow told even though you didn't have a data breach law.
Brett G.
Maybe the best solution is to let it pile up in such a huge mountain that it's impractical to search (sorry, Google)
Brad T.
I lost 2 CDs with the Beatles White Album on them .
Chris S.
We had to wait for a law in California to be told about Choicepoint's gigantic screwup
AKMA
Brad: Talk about valuable data!
Brad T.
Time for another letter, apologizing for the not delivered letter.
Chris S.
can data breach letters result in an endless loop?
JoePlotkin
data leaking=pee2pee?
David I.
I've had to replace my credit card twice in the last year thx to fraudulent transactions
Dirk
The Dutch 'IRS' recently lost 800,000 tax returns...
Brett G.
Actually, the BIG problem is that you can get so much of it about one person with a single number.
Steven C.
NYNEX once sent all its customers their PINs on postcards
Apr 1
10:00 AM
Brett G.
It's the indexing of it that can be dangerous.
AKMA
Joe: data security as digital prostate problem?
Brett G.
Most people's mortgages, deeds, etc. are at the County Courthouse, but it's when a data collection firm comes in and ties it to your SSN that there's a risk
judi
semantic web!
Chris S.
The copyright holders need a version of Mary Bono-Mack if they want to beat the pesky activists.
David I.
Speaking: Nick Givertovsky (sp?)
Brett G.
We can melt it down and use it over again
Apr 1
10:05 AM
Dean L.
do fundamentalists have the market on fundamental rights?
Brett G.
"Bought and Sold " -- Dar Williams
Chris S.
Homer Simpson sold his soul for a doughnut. We sell our data privacy rights for access to google's fantastic webmail interface.
AKMA
AKMA
JoePlotkin
chris s ++
Turk
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Chris S.
Didn't the US opt out of that once the president decided he could do whatever he wanted?
Michael W.
Chris S.
Gigi++
FACO
has entered the room
Dean L.
time traveling super robots from teh future -- been there, done that
Chris S.
Just as we've used DNA collected 30 years ago to investigate old crimes
Chris S.
The data of today is the problem of tomorrow
AKMA
Saints, angels, preaching, goodness, priests, and sin
Brett G.
Brett G.
A "sell by" date?
Chris S.
Bruce - throw a bone to the bloggers. Head of DHS under Obama?
AKMA
Jorge Luis Broges, "Funes the Memorious"
Tom M.
yup...
Brad T.
I saw a paper of that, can't remember where.
Brett G.
The heat death of society?
Apr 1
10:10 AM
Brett G.
Lethe
Jim R.
drowning in our own fecal data.
Tom M.
the mind of a mnemonist -- luria
David I.
Plus there's a cultural thing in the US -- ride west three days and start over . . .
Micah S.
we're going to have to forget what we put on our Facebook pages at age 18
Tom M.
you're not *that* young, micah
Brad T.
I made Kathryn pledge never to search my old USENET posts.
Chris S.
The tweens still went nuts in response to Facebook's news feeds.
JoePlotkin
im glad there was no facebook when i was 18
Jim R.
has left the room
Micah S.
speaking in the royal "we" Tom
David I.
me too, Joe :-)
Tom M.
:)
Steven C.
I wrote about this at the very end of a profile of Gordon Bell's MyLifeBits project http://spectrum.ieee.org/print/2153
Dean L.
Micah -- only the Brits can speak in that royal sense
Brad T.
How about for what I do while I'm old and foolish?
Brett G.
I had a competitor who posted accounts of drinking binges on Facebook.... Prospective clients found them. Oops!
Micah S.
i was so much older than, I'm much much younger now
Chris S.
What about Youthful Indiscretions when you're 40 years old?
David I.
danah boyd++++++
AKMA
"society of permanent teenagers" -- another good one from Suw
shep
Micah S.
have you watched what adults wear these days when they fly somewhere? sweatpants? it is a society of permanent teenagers
Steven C.
referring to Frank Nack: "Forgetting makes our life bearable," Nack wrote, "and is closely related to cultural concepts, such as forgiveness and absolution. I wonder if removing this human imperfection, namely to forget, would do more harm than good."
Russ N.
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Russ N.
morning, all. Hi, Bruce! Hi, Suw!
Mary B.
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Tony A.
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Apr 1
10:15 AM
Mike W.
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Russ N.
Oh, doh, you're on break and all out in the lobby.
judi
Hi Russ
judi
Not everyone.
Apr 1
10:25 AM
AKMA
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Michael W.
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Iz W.
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Micah S.
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Aleecia M.
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Brad T.
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Steven C.
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Michael B.
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Brett G.
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Tom M.
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Chris S.
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JoePlotkin
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Dirk
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Adam
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Mike W.
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Apr 1
10:30 AM
Chris M.
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Paul H.
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Heath R.
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Apr 1
10:40 AM
Drew C.
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FACO
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Steven C.
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Apr 1
10:45 AM
Chris S.
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Apr 1
10:50 AM
FACO
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Mike W.
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Tony A.
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Brad T.
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JoePlotkin
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Heath R.
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Aleecia M.
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Micah S.
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Glenn S.
I thought that this was a conference on Harmonica playing...and this guy is doing a great job!!
Tom M.
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Michael B.
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Michael W.
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Iz W.
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Apr 1
10:55 AM
Chris M.
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Apr 1
10:55 AM
Dirk
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Harold F.
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Tony A.
Can we find the music on plastic or the net?
Paul H.
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judi
for those who are here, you can find it on stage in front of the musicians
Tom M.
Paul H.
Iz W.
I need to make a quick announcement as well -- social media club of DC (it's a nationwide organization) did F2C a favor and promoted us on their blog and in their newsletter. So we promised to let all of you know about them, and also the upcoming BlogPotomac conference. Join us for BlogPotomac, Washington DC's premiere social media marketing event on June 13, 2008 (http://www.blogpotomac.com).
Harold F.
You guys do GREAT work!!!!
Jim R.
has entered the room
Chris S.
Will anyone be going to Washington Dulles Airport later, and has a free (as in beer) spot in their taxi/car? (email csoghoian@gmail.com) if you do.
Mike W.
Pew has your number....
Paul H.
BlogPotomac looks good, I may go myself.
shep
Telephone surveys annoy me when they make my phone ring.
Brad T.
The guys I always hang up on. Digit dial surveys only get people who use phones, answer them and talk to survey takers.
AKMA
has entered the room
Iz W.
shep I think these are online surveys
judi
View paste 
Quicktime broadcast:
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Nicholas G.
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alex i.
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Frank P.
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Angela S.
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Mary B.
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Mike W.
hmm, don't you think the FCC could... oh never mind.
Apr 1
11:00 AM
Mike W.
people are just so clever!
Harold F.
Laugh while you can, code monkey, but actually measuring this stuff is real useful in policy land.
JoePlotkin
"its a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St Hubbins
alex i.
and some people want to make sure it's measured wrong. . .
Brett G.
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Harold F.
Alex, sad but true.
Tony A.
We'll keep counting the votes until the numbers come out right!
Brett G.
So should we have a "clever" network, then?
Harold F.
But PEW jas a good rep and is transparent in their methodology/
Brett G.
"Code monkey get up, get coffee...." - J. Coulton
alex i.
which is good
alex i.
also pew releases data for free
alex i.
pew releases data for free
Aleecia M.
Micah S.
i want to know how this varies by geography...
Apr 1
11:05 AM
Harold F.
They use chat rooms during conferences . . . .
John S.
has entered the room
Brett G.
Livin' La Vida broadban....
Mike W.
Pew consistently proves that Internet users do things and use things that the telecom oligarchs tell us are impossible, unlikely, or not significant
Brett G.
(ooops, "broadband")
Aleecia M.
Micah S.
couple of folks here from the midwest were describing how this level of co-creation is not as prevalent there
Darcy G.
has entered the room
alex i.
Mike W.
Micah, poor quality deployment and access is a major problem in the MW
Russ N.
hrm. the midwest had a higher penetration of telephones 120 years ago than did NYC
Brett G.
The norms are different in that region. Less playful.
judi
hey, some peoples' vcrs have been blinking 12:00 for years.
Frank P.
Iz W.
judi - even some of the people in this room
Brett G.
We have some users whom we call "midnight flashers." These are the people whose VCRs are always blinking midnight because they can't set them....
Mike W.
People in the Midwest 'less playful'? You must be kidding. Humor is mined as a natural resource in the Midwest.
Brett G.
In my experience, in the midwest, there are stricter rules for play.
Frank P.
Brett: VCRs???
Brad T.
How can I get my VCR to flash "1:00" during daylight time?
Iz W.
In fact I am from Milwaukee.
Dirk
Brett G.
Yes, VCRs. Not everyone has a Tivo.
Micah S.
Mary Godwin, who is here, was telling me how her high school students in MN were way behind the curve, compared to middle school kids in NY
Mike W.
But wait John, AT&T told us telemedicine is impossible unless we give them 'regulatory relief' (a legislative enema?)
Frank P.
VCR = 8 inch floppy
alex i.
alex i.
View paste 


Why We Don't Know Enough About Broadband in the U.S.

11/14/2007 | Memo  | John Horrigan
Mary B.
...WHere
Iz W.
HEckle!!!!!!
Brad T.
Made you look
Apr 1
11:10 AM
Russ N.
FrankP: DVD = 5 inch floppy
alex i.
iz b hecklebot?
Mike W.
aw Drew... compliments will get you everywhere
Russ N.
HD-DVD = 3.5" floppy
Brad T.
Tivo == 3.5" floppy
Tom M.
CD=CD
Mary B.
Where the women are strong ..the men are good looking and all the children are above average... That's Lake Wobegan MN
Brett G.
Maw, we have to go to participate in the census.... Hope there is room at the inn.
alex i.
most bband data excludes: work and universities and govt
Mike W.
No room here, but you can go sleep in the manger, Brett
David I.
has entered the room
Brett G.
On the Internet, no one knows that you're the dog in the manger.
Nicholas G.
has left the room
Russ N.
alex i.: I know a number of people who surf at work because home is slow.
Angela S.
As do I.
Harold F.
We've gone from government outsourcing critical functions to citizens outsourcing it for the government.
Suw C.
has entered the room
Brett G.
The danger of allowing comments is that providers can trash one another.
Harold F.
I'm so happy.
JoePlotkin
um, isnt this similar to dslreports.com
Mike W.
check
Brett G.
Hotel owners already do that on the hotel review sites.
Harold F.
I expect Drew will cover verification. Right Drew?
Mike W.
and you can just click on an ad to get service... not
David I.
this is a GREAT use of crowd-sourcing! Please, everybody, participate. The benefits of your participation will accrue to all, and lead to increasing returns.
David I.
Farold, do you actually think bb census will be spoofed or hacked?
Brett G.
When someone looks up broadband in my area, can I get placement in that right hand column so folks know that there isn't just a duopoly?
David I.
Harold . . . sorry
Angela S.
Their data only comes from folks entering it? About their address? On their own?
Harold F.
Actually, there is an excellent use here of identifying the random houses on a block that are just a smidge to far from the central office or at the wrong end of the cul de sac.
Apr 1
11:15 AM
Chris S.
Is price discrimination a good or bad thing for Internet? I pay less for my DSL than my neighbors, simply because I knew to ask for AT&T super secret naked DSL service.
Harold F.
David: if this becomes a useful and reliable source, expect industry actors to try to manipulate it.
Chris S.
In some way, the folks next door paying $60 per month keep my prices lower.
Suw C.
this will be useful when my husband and I are deciding where to live in the US.
Katy S.
there is a thumb drive at the registration desk (lost and found)
Harold F.
Chris: you got a merger condition benefit. your neighbors are irrelevant.
Chris S.
Price discrimination in the airline industry is something I am ok with. Well, at least as long as I'm a student and getting cheap tickets.
Russ N.
ST. Lawrence County is running a broadband census right now.
David I.
good pt harold
Russ N.
Brad T.
Naked DSL was cheaper? In most places it's more expensive.
Brett G.
Chris: And willing to cram yourself into a seat the size of a shoe box.
Chris S.
Harold: The merger specified that they offer naked DSL, not the price
Brad T.
Site refuses to take my entry.
Chris S.
http://www.cnet.com/8301-13739_1-9822662-46.html (Naked DSL from AT&T) - I pay $28 per month for 3Mbits, with no taxes at all.
Dean L.
naked DSL costs more because it creates a billing event -- and what could be more opportune than (drum roll) yet another billing event for a telco?!
Harold F.
No, the AT&T/BS merger did specify price, because when they had naked DSL as a condition in the previous merger, AT&T set the price as only $1 less then bundled.
Chris S.
Before, I had to pay $27, plus a barebones phoneline, and a bunch of taxes.
Tom M.
i took the test and got 1.8mb/sec down
Chris S.
By the time the bill came, I was paying $45 per month. Naked DSL is a big savings
Brett G.
Naked DSL is becoming more palatable to the Bells because as people switch to cell phones, they have excess copper plant
Brad T.
I click "continue" and it just shows the same page
Brett G.
On Qwest, naked DSL cost MORE than DSL on a measured rate line
Dean L.
as a suburban NY Metro Verizon customer, Naked DL would cost me about $60 more per month
Joshua A.
has entered the room
Brett G.
All the cable and telephone companies want to bundle you
Brett G.
...with a long contract that locks you in
alex i.
I use Speakeasy (--Covad -- VZ) but it's not cheap
Joshua A.
to Joe's comment, it would be good to merge this with data from DSLreports
Chris S.
Right, so the point is, that AT&T finally has reasonably priced DSL.. and they do their best to keep it secret.
Apr 1
11:20 AM
Chris S.
DSLreports.com is by far the best source for info..including pricing information.
JoePlotkin
wholesale rate for entire loop (naked) is higher than high freq portion (line shared)
Suw C.
this data would be great as a map mash-up
David I.
suw +++
Chris S.
Suw: It looks like the data is CC licensed.
JoePlotkin
Drew should partner with dslr - they dont have his more formal methodology
alex i.
drewclark.com (h/t f. paynter)
Frank P.
Harold F.
There is a strong economic incentive to drive users to bundled services. I discuss this ad naseum here: http://www.wetmachine.com/totsf/item/1050
alex i.
mark on PBS ++++
Brett G.
Straddling the Beltway?
Mike W.
I also use speakeasy, but they are not listed as a provider on the web site
Joshua A.
i wonder if improvements to speed testing methodology will make the historical data less useful
JoePlotkin
we offer naked DSL thru Covad
Brett G.
Stealing music is one of the best successes of the Internet.
Brett G.
It's just so easy and effective.
Tony A.
There doesn't seem to be a way (on the census) to tell the system that you know of other providers in your area.
Dean L.
a rapacious oligopoly - now there's a term!
Chris S.
And now the industry has gotten into bed with Steve Jobs, who they fear as much as WalMart.
Joshua A.
"outrageous prices" -- except that the record labels actually weren't and aren't making much money
Heath R.
I went to grade school with A. Rapacious Oligopoly.
Brad T.
How much rent do you charge for your basement?
Dean L.
unsigned artist = artist not getting ^@&#*@ed by the record companies of yore
Joshua A.
"oligopoly" -- except that there are more record labels than you can count
alex i.
garageband.com, songza.com
Brett G.
I am an unsigned artist and the albums on which I've performed seem to be more pirated than bought.
Chris S.
Where does Trent Reznor's multi-million $$ label-less online deal fit in?
Apr 1
11:25 AM
Chris S.
Brett: Sell t-shirts
JoePlotkin
Mark is dead on - may the record label rest in peace
Brett G.
We don't have distribution and so the easiest way to get them is P2P
Chris S.
Brett: or use an online tip-jar.
Brad T.
The record labels have the "Sixth Sense" problem.
Brett G.
Muni broadband has no business model.
Heath R.
Joshua: Maximum Rocknroll did a great study of how record labels roll up. There are maybe six major players, if I remember correctly. Subsidiaries of subsidiaries of subsidiaries otherwise
Joshua A.
plus muni wifi doesn't actually work that well, in home
Chris S.
Muni roads and water have no business model either
Mike W.
right on, thank you Mark
Brett G.
Muni Wi-Fi is not a road.
Harold F.
Depends on your goal.
Micah S.
does Mark Cooper have a blog?
Brett G.
If it were more like a road, it would stand a chance of working.
Brad T.
Brett's going to complain that he doesn't exist again.
shep
what about all the people who now have Internet on their mobile phone. Do they count?
Chris S.
right, because the Internets are not a dump-truck, and trucks drive on roads?
Heath R.
Glenn S.
Meanwhile USA is now 24th in Broadband penetration and Estonia has passed us along with Slovenia and others
Brett G.
Roads can be used by multiple private delivery trucks which charge for delivery. That works and is financially sustainable.
Harold F.
Shep: for varying definitions of internet.
Angela S.
people who have internet on the mobile phones also have internet at home
Micah S.
David I.
has left the room
Brad T.
Iz is in touch with her inner child.
Tony A.
Does anyone have stats about availability of mobile phone broadband in rural areas?
Aldon H.
has entered the room
Frank P.
Mike W.
Estonia bucko, how about Freedonia!
Chris S.
In Soviet Estonia, broadband connects to you.
Mike W.
cheap at twice the price!
Brett G.
Our area does not have Sprint, so a Kindle is almost useless there. In that case, it's not just "cell phone broadband" but having the right company available.
Tony A.
Supercomputing screen saver
Brett G.
That's why my Kindle is gathering dust and I am going to give it to a relative as a birthday gift
Apr 1
11:30 AM
Paul B.
has left the room
Apr 1
11:30 AM
Chris S.
screensavers are bad for the environment. Much better to turn off the screen.
Francois L.
has entered the room
Suw C.
the only good kindle is a kindle of kittens.
Tony A.
Are you serious? You can only use the kindle with sprint?
Micah S.
why doesn't Mark Cooper have a blog?
Brett G.
That is correct. Exclusive deal between Amazon and Sprint.
Mike W.
feed://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/blog/mark-cooper/feed
Dean L.
kindle of kittens? don't tell PETA
Harold F.
Mark is too busy to breathe. If he had one more project he would need a time turner.
Steven C.
Brett, can't you email books to yourself from Amazon, Project Gutenberg, etc.?
Chris S.
Does David qualify for DMCA Safe Harbor?
Brad T.
Ha ha, you are pwned!
Mike W.
this is the proto-libertarian, no fear, clothing optional Internet. Thank you David!
Chris S.
I hope they're running openwrt or some other linux firmware
Mike W.
firmware can never be too....
Micah S.
Mike W--thanks. That feed looks like a press release/PDF dump but I'll take it!
Brett G.
How would you receive the e-mail on the Kindle? What you can do very awkwardly and laboriously is download to a computer and upload to the Kindle. But it's very messy and hard to get working.
Chris S.
I run wireshark. I see it ;)
Brad T.
Abandon hope, ye who press ENTER here.
Mike W.
ye who enter here, abandon all hope
Harold F.
Oh my God! It's full of bits!
Mike W.
and those are not my bits
JoePlotkin
public IPs for everybody! Yeah!!
Chris S.
I'm fairly certain you can run BitTorrent on the t-mobile connection at Starbucks
Brad T.
Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.
Angela S.
What does he mean by "the real internet"?
Jim R.
please do not lick your bits in public
Brad T.
Hold conference in Japan.
Mike W.
Freedom to Connect: the Dead concerts of the nethead generation
Brett G.
View paste 
Our ISP will only let a user on what Dewayne is 
calling "the real Internet" if they ask, pay their freight,
and know what they are doing!
Apr 1
11:35 AM
Dirk
welcome in Amsterdam some venues have a Gbit
Tony A.
He means our ip addresses are public. I just ssh'ed back into my machine from
Tony A.
an external site
Chris S.
I hope you're selling it to Google
Mike W.
next year there will be people selling psychedelic USB drives on the sidewalk
Angela S.
Thank you Tony
Chris S.
Wireless internet with bad hair
Mike W.
proxim
Doc S.
has entered the room
Doc S.
Woops, was writing in yesterday.
Doc S.
Any techies know why, on this open network, AIM doesn't work while Bonjour and Jabber do?
Brad T.
It is a wave or a particle?
Angela S.
I'm running AIM and its working.
Steven C.
Brett, I didn't realize you didn't have any Sprint coverage at all
judi
Doc, I've got Adium working w AOL acct too
Brad T.
The Segway?
Chris S.
Wasn't IT the Segway?
Chris S.
So he's adopting the same business model of drug dealers and data pirates?
Brad T.
Except he says it really fast.
JoePlotkin
where is frankston?
Tony A.
AIM (through ichat) works for me.
Steven C.
AIM works under iChat, as well
alex i.
all say hi to the virtual ghost of Bob F
AKMA
Another Adium user, working fine, Doc.
Mike W.
DeWayne is so brilliant... he continues to be ahead of the rest of us even as we all seek to catch up
Dean L.
Sprint EVDO card working like acharm in this room, also up the street at the hotel
Doc S.
aim via iChat looks fine, just doesn't give me any buddies. weird.
Mike W.
If the US loses someone like Dewayne, we are truly screwed
Dean L.
all your buddies are belong to us
Jim R.
Doc you have no friends?
Chris R.
My AIM works fine, running Pidgin
Jim R.
DeWayne website?
AKMA
Your friends have abandoned you, Doc
Chris S.
ssh -D
Apr 1
11:40 AM
Iz W.
sad!
Brad T.
You can't put the Genie back in the bag after the horse has left the barn.
Aldon H.
has left the room
Harold F.
I'm glad we are happy to slink off into the sunset and screw the rest of us.
Mike W.
from a guy in a suit on the corner
Brett G.
We get complaints from Sprint EVDO users all the time. We help them get online through our network because they can't get coverage from Sprint.
Chris S.
I pay $28.99 a month for 3 Megabits.
JoePlotkin
Thats cheap dwayne!
Mike W.
in a brown paper bag
Dean L.
So Lyle Lovett's "If I Had a Boat," feturing tha horse, landed in Europe
Chris S.
Or is his not oversold?
Joshua A.
what does Tier 1 mean in this context?
alex i.
JoePlotkin
I think we pay $30/Mg wholesale
David B.
has entered the room
Brett G.
As I mentioned when I spoke, I can't get access to Level3.
Tony A.
Steven C.
Brad, the pig in the poke actually was the cat you let out of the bag
Brad T.
It's the stupidity, stupid!
alex i.
govt is inspecting ; but hollywood wants filters not just in the core but on every CPE and PC
Brett G.
Stupidity does not equal goodness.
Dean L.
digerati, when will you come to your senses?
Harold F.
I first heard of these guys awhile ago. So what are people proposing to do about it?
Brad T.
I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take IT any more.
alex i.
filters are always wrong (false negs and false positives)
Glenn S.
I have the same issue coming back to America...all my work is overseas and not in the USA
Harold F.
The problem is we have all these fractured strategies. "Follow the sandal!" "Take off the sandal!" No, follow the gourd!"
Tony A.
If Mohammud won't come to the microphone, the microphone must come to Mohammud
Darcy G.
has left the room
Dean L.
some kids took tech shop instead of gym
shep
URL for this "techshop" thing?
Frank P.
Micah S.
and it's a floorwax! and a dessert topping!
Adam
has entered the room
JoePlotkin
cut off fingers=digitalless
Katy S.
analog?
Apr 1
11:45 AM
Adam
ood notes on ipsphere: IPSphere Forum <http://www.ipsphereforum.org/>;, created to describe services, it's origins were that carriers were more interested in addressing what services are required than a more typical IETF approach of what capabilities do the protocols and equipment provide: one is more proscriptive and controlling. Do need QoS and security, and need to work with the industry on how to achieve while maintaining the Internet's ubiquity. IPSphere Forum seems to be trying to establish itself as a profit and carrier-friendly version of the IETF, but without the basic protocol work.
Adam
(that should have been old notes..)
Brett G.
We build those radios.
alex i.
meraki?
Brett G.
We can't operate them legally, of course, but we can play with them in limited ways.
Heath R.
I think Tim's thesis is at ftp://ftp.lcs.mit.edu/pub/lcs-pubs/tr.outbox/MIT-LCS-TR-670.ps.gz
Brett G.
(e.g. under amateur radio rules)
Harold F.
Lesson from wireless microphones: get the radios out there and the FCC will ultimately ;ega;ize them.
Frank P.
Tony A.
Tim: Try to get Rich Miner to backdoor mesh network ability into Android.
Chris S.
Why not just use softradios?
Harold F.
I can't help but wonder if the wireless microphone David is using is an unauthorized device.
Harold F.
We're all radio pirates! How cool.
shep
Android is just software. It's the right short of chips (for building radio hardware) that needs to happen.
Chris S.
If the FCC would get over its fear of open source Software-Defined-Radio drivers, we could use cheap off the shelf chipsets
Brett G.
Heaven forbid that broadband should interfere with a wireless mic that is being used illegally!
Micah S.
Harold F.
I live for the day when a core of open source programmers will act with political consciousness and strategy rather than like kittens chasing shiny objects.
Aleecia M.
I thought part of F2C was to help bring that day about
Chris S.
Brett: If you go to DC to lobby your senator, and a broadway star goes up to complain that their mic is no longer working. Illegal or not, the starlet is going to win the lobbying effort.
alex i.
the voip people are doing well. Asterisk -- Mark Spencer not yet 30 -- very dynamic
Micah S.
Harold F. ++
Apr 1
11:50 AM
Harold F.
Chirs S. Not true.
Harold F.
There are wys to lobby effectiely. Contrary to Dewayne writing us off, we do achieve success and they do matter.
Brett G.
We need some starlets that want broadband.
Chris S.
EFF co-founder John Gilmore has (I believe) funded the GNUradio effort, which already supports GSM, HDTV, and 802.11. We just need mass production of the hardware (http://www.gnu.org/software/gnuradio/)
Harold F.
Of course, I can't spell effectively . . . .
Chris S.
However, it may be illegal for a non hobbyist/developer to use GNUradio.
shep
Chris S: "softradios", I assume you mean "software radio" or one of the associated buzzwords. Radios that are capable of 100s or 1000s of megabits per second are going to have a significant amount of hardware. Of course any modern (21st century) radio design will have a lot of software in it. The software is the easy part. Getting the necessary hardware built (so that its 5 to 10 dollars per radio) is what has to happen.
alex i.
Brett G.
No one is going to win by just commandeering spectrum.
Tony A.
Brett: Some "amateur" starlets already make effective use of broadband. :-)
shep
(I meant 5 to 10 dollars of chips in each radio, radios 50 to 150 dollars each.)
Angela S.
has left the room
alex i.
http://www.emaxwell.net thanks frank paynter
Jim R.
my system doesn't work can you computerize it?
Brett G.
Yes, I hear that "Kristen" had a page on Facebook, if that's what you mean.
Brad T.
Software radio is cool but not suitable in low power devices yet.
Dean L.
putting 47 million people into a shitty system -- wasn't that W's plan in Iraq?
alex i.
Michael W.
Only 27, err, 25, err maybe about 21 mil people in iraq
Brad T.
Beltway is a faraday cage around DC
Brett G.
Iraq has a system?
Brad T.
Stops reality from entering.
Dirk
has left the room
Chris S.
If the horse has left for europe, haven't the french eaten it already?
Mike W.
It has been happening for years... emigration to the EU far exceeds immigration from the EU
Brad T.
That happened once.
Glenn S.
Unfortunately overseas is where countries understand the connection between economic growth and the need for broadband access...
Mike W.
for more than a decade
Micah S.
fight for your right to ...
Brett G.
Dewayne, remember, was asserting that Native American tribes should assert sovereignty, overrule the FCC, and take the radio spectrum on their lands....
Apr 1
11:55 AM
Brad T.
In a nice white wine sauce.
Chris S.
Not bear sterns
Jim R.
you have the right to remain silent what you lack is the capacity.. Shrek
Harold F.
Almost?
Brad T.
I'm putting all my money into Bull Stearns.
Brett G.
Run on the investment bank
Harold F.
Yes, welcome to a modern bank panic.
Frank P.
Fed has 900 billion to give away, and the administration has only earmarked 400 billion for their cronies so far
Mike W.
Stock touts, manipulative investment advisors, liars, cheats, and theieves
Micah S.
Get a copy of Kevin Phillips new book, Bad Money
Dean L.
++ frank P
Brett G.
I have had all of my assets in cash for a year
Glenn S.
GW bailed out Bears Stern but what about the folks in New Orleans who will won't get a bailout?
Mike W.
Superior system = jail for most of them
Frank P.
brett euros I hope
Harold F.
The FCC should learn the lesson of the financial markets on the dangers of waiting for proof that something is wrong before acting.
Tony A.
Thank you Roxanne. Your check is in the mail.
alex i.
had a direct effectt on 700 MHz auction -- many could not raise money and never qualified
Mike W.
but when DOJ and SEC is effectively closed for business, who will put them there
Harold F.
Alex: very true. and lost "betting courage" as the markets got worse.
Brad T.
DJIA +272 points
Brett G.
Yes, I know people who could not borrow money to make the upfront payments much less bid.
JoePlotkin
but we dont have an open market in connectivity -- we have duopoly with mkt power
Mike W.
I'm sick
Tony A.
Is Roxanne saying that reputation in the banking system broke down, leading to the credit disaster. What does Linton (OpenMoney) have to say about that.
Iz W.
I resent the pejorative use of the term "goldilocks".
Brad T.
What, you mean it's _buy_ low and _sell_ high?
Izumi A.
i didn't go much about this yesterday, but IPv4 pool of address will soon expire, and we will have a complex structure of IPv4-v6 "co-existence" which may change the nature of the Net
Brett G.
Jeff Pulver once told me that I had no [genitalia] because I wouldn't do VoIP unless I could do good QoS
Izumi A.
so far, no one in this room seem to take this seriously, but I am afraid, as a novice user, it may create some interesting and headache
Apr 1
12:00 PM
Brad T.
Yes, it's going to be fun, Izumi. But it will work out. "It's a mystery."
Apr 1
12:00 PM
Tom M.
has left the room
Chris M.
has left the room
Brett G.
Internet vidiot-savants, volunteer!
Brett G.
On the Internet, no one knows you're a god
Jim R.
has left the room
Chris S.
Anyone off to Dulles Airport?
Doc S.
Was that a kaddish for the Internet, AKMA?
Izumi A.
well, Brad, I am not so optimistic, yet - I hope I am wrong
Doc S.
I'll be going to Dulles tomorrow evening, fwiw.
Mary B.
has left the room
Micah S.
what is the name of this song?
Micah S.
lay lady lay
Micah S.
thank you slow brain
Doc S.
It is?
Micah S.
am i wrong?
Micah S.
i have confirmation
Sascha M.
has entered the room
Apr 1
12:10 PM
Glenn S.
has left the room
Dave W.
has left the room
Tony A.
has left the room
Brad T.
has left the room
Aleecia M.
has left the room
Michael B.
has left the room
Iz W.
has left the room
AKMA
has left the room
Adam
has left the room
Izumi A.
has left the room
Steven C.
has left the room
Chris S.
has left the room
FACO
has left the room
JoePlotkin
has left the room
Heath R.
has left the room
Michael W.
has left the room
Harold F.
has left the room
alex i.
has left the room
John S.
has left the room
Russ N.
that's one way to get people to go to lunch! turn off the wifi!
Apr 1
12:15 PM
Russ N.
(at WTF, David always had a bit of trouble getting people to move on to the next thing)
Mike W.
has left the room
Joshua A.
has left the room
Doc S.
has left the room
Heath R.
has entered the room
Apr 1
12:20 PM
Micah S.
has left the room
Paul H.
has left the room
Frank P.
has left the room
Suw C.
has left the room
Apr 1
12:30 PM
Dave W.
has entered the room
Sean D.
has entered the room
Apr 1
12:40 PM
Francois L.
has left the room
Apr 1
12:50 PM
Danny O.
has entered the room
Tony A.
has entered the room
Mary B.
has entered the room
Apr 1
12:55 PM
Harold F.
has entered the room
Tom M.
has entered the room
JoePlotkin
has entered the room
Tom M.
where can we get this ?
Tom M.
Casey L.
has entered the room
Adam
has entered the room
Adam M.
has entered the room
Tony A.
Androids DO dream of electric sheep: http://www.dieselsweeties.com/shirts/elect’Ķ
Harold F.
And viewers like you . . . .
Apr 1
1:00 PM
Mike W.
has entered the room
Jim R.
has entered the room
Mike W.
judi rocks!
alex g.
has entered the room
John B.
has entered the room
Iz W.
has entered the room
Micah S.
has entered the room
Mike W.
and methane, for that matter
Tony A.
Scott gave an excellent talk on the mathematics behind Electric Sheep at Google
judi
thank you Mike
FACO
has entered the room
Tony A.
Iz W.
here are some other urls: http://www.hifidreams.com and http://www.draves.org
Frank P.
has entered the room
Mike W.
the 2% solution!
Dirk
has entered the room
Iz W.
warning that google tech talk is HIGHLY technical
Mike W.
and that's my 2%
Iz W.
(that's to tempt everyone in the room)
Frank P.
global warNing
Mike W.
really....
Brett G.
The Internet can cut energy consumption. That's why we all flew here. ;-)
Mike W.
it's bigger than... it's real big
Iz W.
brett I took the train
Brett G.
Electric or diesel?
Tom M.
I drove -- but I thought about hitchhiking.
Michael W.
has entered the room
Danny O.
has left the room
Harold F.
I walked.
alex g.
has left the room
John B.
Anyone in SL can come discuss F2C on Capitol Hill - http://slurl.com/secondlife/Capitol%20Hill’Ķ
alex g.
has entered the room
Mike W.
I flew, but I thought about astral projection
Harold F.
'Course I live less than a mile from here.
Apr 1
1:05 PM
alex g.
I'm in an electric room
Harold F.
AND I STILL CAN"T GET FIOS!!!!
Dean L.
I thought in Buffalo they struggled withteh snow
Suw C.
has entered the room
Harold F.
(Which I would buy in a second if it ever deployed in my neighborhood, HIN HINT)
alex g.
climate change -- snow moved to clevland this year as the wind leaving the lakes changed direction
Dean L.
Scotty beamed me here from NY
Tom M.
I want to buy a car that puts the Arctic back together.
Steven C.
has entered the room
judi
my other car is the Internets.
alex g.
Exxon has a boat that can take the arctic apart. . .
Steven C.
Buffalo still had plenty of snow this winter
alex g.
judi +++
Dean L.
I drive a hybrid on the info highway
Brett G.
Can Scotty beam me some good single malt?
Micah S.
i try to coast down the info highway as much as possible
Dirk
View paste 
Openreach announces 6-year FTTH deployment plan
Uk_dp You've probably read the news already, it's all over 
the place, but in a surprise move, Openreach, the separated 
wholesale arm of UK incumbent BT has announced a 6-year FTTH 
deployment plan with the aim to cover 95 to 99% of the 
population by 2014.
Joshua A.
has entered the room
Dirk
Jim R.
do the zero bits consume energy?
Brett G.
Ironically, due to the FCC rules for power output, wireless is much more energy efficient than fiber.
Apr 1
1:10 PM
alex g.
will openreach be closed to resale by ISPs? That would be motivation.
Apr 1
1:10 PM
Frank P.
Dams on the Columbia River count as sunk costs, I suppose... so when google and MS suck that gigawattage straight into the server farms, one can only exclaim, "How green!"
Brett G.
Weill we have to sequester 1 bits?
Dirk
Than the UK is to be a major fiber energy user...
Frank P.
of course Portland will have to burn old tires or something
Dirk
I think OpenReach is under strong government pressure
Casey L.
View paste 
The possible role of FTTH in reducing demand for
Tennessee Valley Authority electric power --
article and video interview with Billy Ray of Glasgow, KY EPB

http://tinyurl.com/2wnu7y (video)
Brad T.
has entered the room
alex g.
many people don't know that WA state has a lot of hydro -- WISPs have benefited too -- and some of the local power outfits have built fiber in small towns
John S.
has entered the room
Adam
has left the room
Casey L.
View paste 
Billy Ray:  ’ÄúAn elegant vision ignored’Äù ’Äì FTTH
to reduce big investments in electric power plants  

http://tinyurl.com/2kto5f
Frank P.
telecommuting costs for cooling Mountain Dew at home rather than at work?
Sascha M.
has left the room
Mike W.
but if the RIAA, ipsphere, and AT&T prevent me from downloading...
Apr 1
1:15 PM
Brad T.
Why do all the people in teleconferencing product shots all look like models?
Brett G.
Heh-eh-eh-eh-loh-oh-oh-[CLICK]
shep
Picturephone
Jim R.
still have the restraints of time zones
Doc S.
has entered the room
Mike W.
Alex, the large data centers are all locating in WA state due to the cheap power AND good fiber and better connections. Cheap, renewable power, good connectivity = jobs, stewardship, $$
Brad T.
Hello, are we working?
Mike W.
Alex, the large data centers are all locating in WA state due to the cheap power AND good fiber and better connections. Cheap, renewable power, good connectivity = jobs, stewardship, $$
alex g.
vz will never deploy biz fios -- would cut T-1 sales too much
Steven C.
the more full the fridge is, the less energy required, so more Mtn Dew at home is a win-win for energy efficiency
David I.
The Cisco telepresence system has GREAT eye contact too.
Brett G.
Methane emissions from snacking too much on Doritos and bean dip while working at home?
Micah S.
Every time I don't go to India, I save a lot too. However, I've never been there.
David I.
Brett, it is NOT like that
David I.
it is awesome, like being there . . . NOT picturephone, more like the Star Trek transporter :-)
Russ N.
We have cheap power in the north country, AND plenty of cold into which to dump the heat, AND good fiber.
David I.
it is awesome, like being there . . . NOT picturephone, more like the Star Trek transporter :-)
Brad T.
I buy it from Amazon.
alex g.
has left the room
Frank P.
Mike: look at weather change projections for the Columbia River. Great concern that not enough water will be stored to keep that hydro churning
Apr 1
1:20 PM
Dean L.
Micah, just go to 6th St betw 1st & 2nd Aves
Mike W.
buy everything online and never leave your house or wear clothes! I'm there!
alex g.
I look forward to a desert full of solar panels
Mike W.
buy everything online and never leave your house or wear clothes! I'm there!
Heath R.
Jonl in Austin reports that the streaming Web cast isn't working
Mike W.
buy everything online and never leave your house or wear clothes! I'm there!
Heath R.
Jonl in Austin reports that the streaming Web cast isn't working
Adam M.
UPS never making left turns, AKA the Zoolander principle
Mike W.
has left the room
judi
funny how that got thru...
judi
yes, is being invesitaged
Dean L.
Mike W -- you're there 2x
broadcast
test
Apr 1
1:25 PM
Brad T.
Ok, Mike, don't get too excited.
alex g.
has entered the room
Brad T.
It gets through but with 2 minute delay
Iz W.
some guy told me once that he had made a bike map for manhattan that allowed you to ride anywhere on the island without ever going uphill
Angela S.
has entered the room
Francois L.
has entered the room
Michael B.
has entered the room
Apr 1
1:30 PM
Sara C.
has entered the room
Apr 1
1:30 PM
Doc S.
has left the room
Steven C.
View paste 
Iz: even if you start at Canal St or the bottom of Murray's Hill?
Sara C.
has left the room
Frank P.
won't matter, the whole south coast will be submerged, won't it?
Sara W.
has entered the room
Brad T.
As Canadian as possible under the circumstances
alex g.
you just have to adjust your perception in the orwellian manner and call up down and then the always downhill map of NY is possible, or fly like Arthur
alex g.
darts!
Tree S.
has entered the room
Robert C.
has entered the room
Brett G.
Canada exports more oil to the US than the Saudis
Brad T.
And we feel guilty over every barrel.
Tony A.
Iz: it must be possible to ride a bike only downhill. WHen I was a kid I walked to school uphill both ways. :-)
Brett G.
(All together now: "Blame Canada!")
judi
network problem is being investigated
Brett G.
The starting point of that map must have been at the top of the Empire State Building
Brett G.
(Wheeeee!)
Steven C.
Or Morningside Park
Adam M.
We decided our carbon footprint needed some color, so we called Turner and they Technicolored it. But then it shrunk. We consider that a success.
Micah S.
has left the room
Heath R.
Jonl also reports that in Austin, he can't get into the chat room
Brett G.
Black -> Green?
Dean L.
Iz, did the tour begin at Ft. Tryon Park> It really is all downhill from there
Apr 1
1:35 PM
Frank P.
walmart solution... force the vendor to change the specs
Brett G.
And violate Second Law of Thermodynamics
judi
Heath, I don't see JonL on chat. Please advise him to check:
judi
View paste 
Quicktime broadcast:
  rtsp://harmony.law.harvard.edu/f2c.sdp
Guest access to the chat:
  https://f2c08.campfirenow.com/e41c1
Frank P.
lolbbq
Brad T.
Just lowered the MTBF
Paul H.
has entered the room
Tom M.
has left the room
shep
Heath R.
Judi: Because the URL's not working for him. Previously, he said the Web streaming was inaccessible.
Jon L.
has entered the room
alex g.
make every parking lot solar!
Jim R.
Google is doing a lot of the same things or were last year (being not evil).
Jon L.
Ah, it works!
Brett G.
What about Sun Microcenter's "data center in a shipping container?" Power in, hot water and data out.
Sara W.
Alex I think they already are
Brett G.
You can drop one in a parking lot.
Heath R.
Phew. Is the Webcast still down for you?
Sara W.
...unintentionally so, that is.
Tree S.
it's in and out here in france.
Dean L.
What? The future was 3 years ago? And some of us missed it? FEH!
Robert C.
Webcast is up
Frank P.
you always say that
Brett G.
Oops; "Microcenter's" s/b "Microsystems" of course
judi
I've heard there's about a one minute delay in the webcast right now.
Jon L.
Webcast is working now, too.
judi
Hi Jon
Frank P.
hi tree
judi
Dewayne must be done with lunch. ;-)
Steven C.
"The Greening of Google" - http://spectrum.ieee.org/oct07/5568
Jon L.
Hi, Judi!
Tony A.
Google has done some interesting work on disk drive operating temp and MTBF. It's somewhere on the net. You can run them a lot hotter than manufacturers spec.
Jon L.
Heh.
Brad T.
Yes, it sure surprised me since I saw more failures before I put better cooling in my boxes. Anecdotal, though.
Brett G.
Google is tolerant of errors in that if you miss a hit due to a failed disk, you never know.
Brad T.
Frank P.
one of the parms is "Abuse of the internet????" did I hear that correctly?
Tree S.
fuckinggoogleit.com
Heath R.
Apr 1
1:40 PM
alex g.
Apr 1
1:40 PM
Dean L.
a Tree grows in Silver Spring
Brad T.
Make a phone powered by heat from teen-ager breath.
Frank P.
BT has the brass to qualify traffic as "abuse" or "not abuse?"
Brett G.
If you're not running a server, that is possible
Tree S.
hey Dino
Robert C.
Thanks Barbara -- I finally found how to get in - thanks others on CT
Doc S.
has entered the room
Jon L.
Always on is better... availability that isn't "on" has latency.
Doc S.
stage
has left the room
Brett G.
If your computer wakes up as you sit down in front of it, you will not notice any latency because YOUR latency is longer.
Iz W.
has left the room
Jon L.
Brett: my computer's generally slower to respond than I am, especially if it's asleep.
Brett G.
Must be running Windows.
Tony A.
Brett: +++. My desktop is on right now, but all I really need is wake-on-lan when I want to ssh in.
JoePlotkin
my latency is increasing my the second now
Jon L.
Indeed.
stage
has entered the room
Dean L.
http://tinyurl.com/yrjf3u discussion of the study
alex g.
joe, my brain latency increases too
Brad T.
Tony, why can't you get that? Your broadband router has not way to forward a WOL?
Jim R.
there is a lot of latency in the other people in the room and they are always on, mostly.
Tree S.
i love and trust surveys
Brett G.
I just arrived on time for the conference. Any coffee?
alex g.
tree, have you embraced big brother as your lord and savior?
Drew C.
has entered the room
Jon L.
"Big Brother is wonking."
Apr 1
1:45 PM
Tree S.
couldn't get my arms but a quarter percent around him
Drew C.
The rise of the stupid electric network?
Brad T.
Carbon clubs shoot a lot better than the old steel ones, but tend to hook your shots.
Brett G.
Jon, did you misspell that last word?
Jon L.
No.
Tony A.
Brad T: I probably can, but I just swapped desktops a few days ago and didn't have time to play with configuring energy savings, other than blanking the screen.
Dirk
has left the room
Brett G.
Sorry, I'm hearing a British accent and thinking in British English.
JoePlotkin
I was thinking he said Stern Gang
Jon L.
Are you sure he's not from Texas?
Drew C.
Is this chat archives somewhere? (What to see what people talked about before I re-joined the fireside.)
Tree S.
dinner guest material?
judi
yes, chat is archived
alex g.
archive a good idea for next year
Robert C.
Yes - go to the Lobby - then to Files - and you will see an archive
alex g.
oh cool
Brett G.
There are lobbyists here?
judi
last year's chat was too, I think
Frank P.
Jon L.
They're out in the lobby.
Frank P.
oh no, that wasn't BT. That was the Beeb
Mike W.
has entered the room
Brett G.
The Beeb van just pulled up outside. Gotta pay a tax on that computer.
Jon L.
Once you get your arms around the future, it's the present.
Tree S.
damn
Mike W.
van Utrecht?
Brett G.
If you're fully employed, you don't have TIME to be a blogger.
Michael W.
BT still claiming patent on links? whatever happened with that?
Jon L.
Ineresting... lag between right and left channels on webcast creates echo.
FACO
Apr 1
1:50 PM
Tree S.
how happy was it?
Sara W.
Not necessarily true. I have a Quaker blog (of a non-religious nature). I just write something when I feel like it, and when I don't I don't.
Brett G.
Listen with one ear
Sara W.
doesn't take much time at all
Robert C.
What's your quaker blog??
judi
I haven't heard the echo (yet), but guess that it's the speaker's voice going in the near mic, and traveling across the stage to far (musician's) mic
Sara W.
on the other hand, you wouldn't want to follow it too closely
judi
Ah, for an extra video cam and a good mixing board...
Tree S.
my blog is quaking
Brad T.
You can't get to the quaker blogs as they won't use the root dns servers.
Jon L.
It's not bad echo.
Frank P.
Tree S.
stick a little reverb on it
Jon L.
Frank: ha.
Brett G.
It's probably going from mic to PA speaker to mic to the Net
Dean L.
Does Wilfred Brimley read it?
Frank P.
weird, that's a whole foods link
Jon L.
Tree: and a backbeat.
Jon L.
Frank, Whole Foods bought Wild Oats.
Tree S.
808
Brad T.
fibre in the disco?
Sara W.
judi, are you suggesting a rap remix of some of the talks?
Tree S.
i sowed mine
Brett G.
Whole Foods recently swallowed Wild Oats [GULP!] and the govt approved the merger
Frank P.
I sewed mine.
Tree S.
oh pls, talk hours
judi
no, Sara, didn't think that was appropriate for this crowd, but wouldn't THAT be interesting.
alex g.
But the FTC tried to stop whole food wild oats -- why? no valid reason given -- is whole foods that liberal?
Jon L.
It would be appropriate for some members of this crowd.
Mike W.
for more information on these themes, read "The Internet Galaxy" by Manual Castells
Brett G.
Nyah, my city's greener than yours
Sara W.
so, frank, are you another one of those people who stays inside, unclothed, telecommuting? That's what I would be if I had to sew my own clothes. Other than a basic toga, i lack the skills
Tree S.
and the oscar for greenest goes to
Jon L.
Alex: there was an issue with some things John Mackey said posting under an assumed name at a Yahoo group.
Sara W.
judi, i think it would be perfect for this crowd because it is digital and you could embed a bunch of algorithms into the backbeat
Brett G.
Birthday suits are popular among telecommuters
Frank P.
Apr 1
1:55 PM
Sara W.
then everyone could have big fun solving them
Apr 1
1:55 PM
judi
blending in some digital sheep
Tony A.
Brett: ... until they get video links to work.
alex g.
nah, need to wear something if you sit on same chair every day
Mike W.
Sara W.
gross
Joshua A.
judi -- i'm curious -- what software are you using for the webcasting?
Brett G.
If you are scared of public speaking you can REALLY see your audience naked
Sara W.
but doesn't that make you stare unnaturally at them
Sara W.
?
judi
really tried hard to make QT Broadcaster work, but abandoned in favor of Wirecast ($$)
Brett G.
Is it unnatural?
Joshua A.
thanks j
Tree S.
wrongo
Brett G.
Bring the mountain to Mohammed
alex g.
i like telecommuting. have been doing it for c. a month now
Sara W.
well i don't know about you but i find gawking somewhat distracting
Tree S.
first you bring the mountain
Mike W.
that's sahara nomad
Sara W.
whether i am the gawker or the gawkee
Tree S.
then you don't
Nicholas G.
has entered the room
Brett G.
It adds something to a boring meeting
alex g.
The Fourth Utility and The Fourth Estate
Tony A.
Beware the dark side of telecommuting. After 15 years I screamed to get back to an office.
Dean L.
Tree quoting golden oldie by Donovan --kudos
Sara W.
me too
alex g.
Tony: I'll do it for 15 yrs first!
Sara W.
but it has to be MY office.
JoePlotkin
Tony: after 15 years? dont you catch on faster than that?
Sara W.
I cannot bear anyone else controlling my movement
Tree S.
the GIRLS?
Sara W.
huh?
Tree S.
did he just say "the girls"?
Brett G.
A connected bus? I've seen those. There's a pantograph on top that feeds it electric power.
Frank P.
when I'm working in my home office the dog and the cat bully me
Sara W.
what girls?
Sara W.
what do they have to do w/it?
FACO
Brett G.
Did someone say grrrrls?
alex g.
Smart roads would be good. could we have smart mass transit too? Bus stops w/ sign saying when next bus will _really_ arrive?
Tree S.
something about "the girls are working on...." when talking about the bottom of the pyramid.
Tree S.
it could be lagging here for me, the feed.
Sara W.
oh, now i get it. question: how many audiences do you encounter in this industry that are predominantly female? I rest my case
Russ N.
http://www.ruf.dk/ better than smart roads.
JoePlotkin
alex ++
Frank P.
I think this one gets high marks for gender diversity
judi
tree, you know we had "girls" working as the original computer programmers. We can do more than you might imagine...
Apr 1
2:00 PM
Casey L.
has left the room
Doc S.
has left the room
Brett G.
When I speak to the Wyoming Women's Business Center, it's almost all girls
alex g.
I like having the information -- but the war on terra means that delays, price rises, etc. are natl security secrets
Sara W.
agreed, but still, from a gawker perspective/
Sara W.
?
Brad T.
No women there Brett?
Jon L.
Girls just want to have code.
Brett G.
And some of them are multimillionaires
Tree S.
no judi, i meant it in the complete opposite way.
Sara W.
i am responding to brett's comment/crack
Tree S.
fp, if you see her, pls explain later.
alex g.
i am not responding
judi
thx, missed Brett's comment (filtering?)
Mike W.
Sara, gross. Let's change the subject
Jim R.
after a day of working at home nothing I want to do more that sit home all evening.
Robert C.
people dont turn down their thermostats
Sara W.
good plan. i approve
Robert C.
biased against telecom
Robert C.
telecommuting'
Jim R.
distributed work environments, co-working?
Brett G.
They joke with me when I show up that i am an honorary "one of the girls"
Frank P.
jonl: cyndi lauper reference?
Dean L.
yes, Miss Lauper's "Money Changes Everything"
Mike W.
In Seattle, see My Day Office
Sara W.
not touching that one bro (brett)
Tree S.
open and smokin' work smart centers very zen if i am understanding centers as a verb
Brad T.
Like at the World's Fair?
Jon L.
Frank: yes, indeed.
Robert C.
It is said that the biggest pollution a car causes is when it is first turned on and the engine is cold. The most pollution a car causes is around your house. In other words, if you commute anywhere as opposed to telecommuting from home, you exacted an environ cost.
Tree S.
fibrous
alex g.
i still prefer my home to a smart center but I could use a good copier.
Brett G.
What's the difference between going to a "work center" and going to an office? It has the worst elements of both.
Mike W.
yum
Frank P.
my dog would be mad at me
alex g.
don't need a car in holland -- nice bike lanes
Dean L.
e discussion returns to kibbles and bits
Jim R.
brett G not if it within a few miles of your home.
Sara W.
i hate driving. i resent it
Frank P.
have enough trouble getting work done at home
Tree S.
"a good copier" sounds like a gogol short story.
alex g.
i'm from NYC I never learned how to drive
Frank P.
Tree Nose
Tom M.
has entered the room
Apr 1
2:05 PM
Jim R.
epcot.
Brett G.
You still aren't face to face with co-workers but have to get up, get dressed, commute.... And cars are the dirtiest when they are first started.
Brad T.
But biking burns about 10 gallons petro fuel per mile ridden.
Frank P.
gogol search engine
Brad T.
I mean 10 miles per gallon.
Sara W.
i don't know why people so love to commute (physically). it is a total waste of time and a purgatorial experience
alex g.
joe -- any opinon on symmetric service?
Robert C.
BTW there is less echo on the right channel than the left. Push your sound balance to the right.
Jim R.
you could also use electric only cars which have short range but zero or low emissions.
Tree S.
bring back the rickshaw in the 'dam. they prob. already did.
Mike W.
Look, I'm going to take issue with Mijnheer Boorsma. In the US we frequently lack the network capacity and quality to deploy these solutions.
JoePlotkin
cities are the most energy efficient living systems yet devised. Discuss.
Brett G.
You could use electric cars or mass transit to go all the way.
Tom M.
joe plotkin +++
Jon L.
Glad H3ath's live blogging this, my attention's divided (work). (Bows to H3ath, the true master of live blogging.)
Brad T.
Yes, scooters and lightweight electric trikes are most enegery efficient transport. 20x better than transit.
Sara W.
i just rented an office that is < 1 mi. (=walking distance) from my home
Tree S.
oh no.
Russ N.
Jim R. look at http://www.ruf.dk/ for the solution to limited range cars.
JoePlotkin
putting the sub in suburban
Tree S.
chevy suburban
Mike W.
If Cisco, as a company, would but the same energy it these ideas as they put into LIMITING and CONSTRAINING network use as a workaround for the poor quality of network throughput, then maybe...
Heath R.
Jonl, thanks. My attention is waning, though. Must. Get. Coffee.
Brett G.
All networking is local.
Katy S.
has left the room
Robert C.
NPR has had several stories the last few mornings on (A) big mega suburban McManson and its energy cost versus (B) small houses with small energy consumption in the city or close to the city.
Heath R.
If anyone did those last two, let me know. I took a break.
Tree S.
tangible takeaways, hmmm...
Mike W.
but the diversion of attention to ramping DOWN network use in the US and getting people to limit or constrain their use has taken us away from plans to more and better networks
Jon L.
Somebody go get Heath a cup of coffee...!
Brad T.
RUF looks like the PRT dream, which is about 50 years old and still nothing.
Jim R.
Brad T scooters not necessarily an option in cold climates
Brett G.
If you're hyperlocal, shouldn't your boss be local as well as you?
Drew C.
has left the room
Drew C.
has entered the room
Brad T.
Yes, but enclosed electric trikes are. But even full blown electric cars are still 4x better than transit.
Tree S.
biblical? !
Jim R.
outlaw sitting in line at the McD drivethru in the morning would save lots/
Sara W.
Tree S: not sure I'm following.....
JoePlotkin
yes Bob, i heard iit this morning (about atlanta) and that was my reaction --> cities, so novel!
judi
we had angels and all this morning, just extending this
Apr 1
2:10 PM
Mike W.
and toward a future, in the US, or less is better network architiecture, more proprietary and property oriented solutions, and corporate misrepresntation and malfeasance
Apr 1
2:10 PM
Tree S.
maybe i'm on a lag here in france, but he just said "biblical"
Brett G.
Public/private purple people partnership
Steven C.
"biblical" is misused about as much as "quantum" (and in similar ways), which is to say, almost always
Heath R.
As is "fascist"
Sara W.
oh. got it. i did not hear him saying biblical, so i reacted with surprise to your surprise at him saying biblical. btw, i wish i were in france too
Harold F.
If they are out of business, they have reduced their carbon footprint.
Brad T.
This use of biblical was a quantum leap over other uses, you fascist.l
Russ N.
Brad T: the problem with PRT is that it's a closed system. RUF is open. Individually-owned vehicles.
Tree S.
and he mentioned Job.
Brad T.
Better than PRT, but too late. (Long story for offline discussion.)
Brett G.
Avoid cliches like the plague
shep
has left the room
Russ N.
k
Tree S.
whales up next.
Sara W.
ok, back up gang. what on earth are you talking about w/respect to biblical and fascist. the kgb? the pope?
Frank P.
we're trying to get a better handle the "f" word, heath... knowing when to call a fascist a fascist is critical toward getting them out of power and in jail.
Sara W.
noahs' ark?
Brett G.
Sara: Can you say, "hyperbole?
Sara W.
the trains running on time? i am totally confused.
Frank P.
pope benedict was a member of Hitler Youth but claims to not have that involved, really
Heath R.
FP, agreed
Sara W.
nope. you did so i didn't have to
alex g.
Tree S.
godwins!
Brad T.
He didn't inhale.
Sara W.
i remember that frank
Sara W.
not to become a broken record, but what is godwins?
Sara W.
is that 'god wins?' i am sooooo out of the loop
alex g.
we are about to achieve a rare double godwin with a triple throw
Tree S.
i think i played mah jhong with her one time. seriously.
alex g.
Sara W.
i give up
Sara W.
thanks alex for throwing me a life vest
Frank P.
sara follow the link
alex g.
could we call it climate change instead of warming?
alex g.
I think the worst part is the drought(s)
Tree S.
raises hand. (just kidding)
Tony A.
has left the room
alex g.
whoever just whispered "it's the cows" +++
Apr 1
2:15 PM
Sara W.
did so frank. helped a lot!
Brett G.
Dharma?
Tree S.
ask a Hopi
Jon L.
alex: agreed re climate change.
Mary B.
The term is climate change (no longer use global warming)
Mary B.
Brett G.
The Sanskrit term Dharma is a spiritual term which signifies the underlying order in nature and life (human or other) considered to be in accord with that order.
Brett G.
Appropriate.
Harold F.
I agree that in an environment this complex, the current blip is too short term a trend to register. But the predicted impacts match the models.
alex g.
even on April Fools day
Heath R.
Should we act as though global warming is real just in case?
Jim R.
Oh I thought he said Climb and Truss.
Mike W.
Look, there is a major corporate disconnect here. Verizon other US cabletelecoms consistently object to build out requirements that would actually bring the kind of connecting that people need to access telemedicine, telework, teleconferencing, etc
Tree S.
(glad he changed his tie)
Harold F.
Heath R ++
JoePlotkin
but David I -- cap and trade is not the solution
Brad T.
Beef and corn are destroying America
shep
has entered the room
Harold F.
But they are so tasty!
Tree S.
et la vache
Mary B.
Mike W +++
Tom M.
High taxes contribute to global warming: discuss.
Mike W.
I think these folks are sincere and very thoughtful, but their corporate strategies are not congruent with what they are saying
Harold F.
the subsidies I mean.
Brett G.
Or building America, depending upon how you look at it.
Sara W.
you go brad!
Heath R.
Mmm, corned beef
judi
beef and corn don't destroy. It's people raising it.
shep
I find it astonishing that there are so few people skeptical about global warming in this audience.
Brad T.
No, it's the cows themselves. And the corn is listening for them.
Sara W.
tree s... la vache qui rit
Jon L.
beef | methane | destruction
Jon L.
No travel, no F2C
Tree S.
View paste 
"JIMINY LUMMOX
When you wish upon a side of beef,
Soon will come and end to all your grief
But if you've been mean or kinda bad,
I will knock out all your teeth!"
alex g.
the cows are the children of the corn
Heath R.
beef : hamburger :: corn : creamed corn
John S.
has left the room
Brett G.
We'd need a Holodeck, which would probably be rather expensive and energy-intensive.
Mike W.
I appreciate their work, because I DO believe they may begin to have an impact within their own corporate ecology
Sara W.
is startlingly close, as a phrase, to a diagnostic question used in assessing levels of psychosis. to wit: sometimes dogs laugh at me (true or false)
Harold F.
Cows with guns!
Robert C.
Vegetarianism!
alex g.
me too. It's good that corps trying to reduce emissions
Tree S.
eat the poor
Brad T.
How much of this carbon reduction we're talking about here is "feel-good" that fixes 2% of the problem but ignores the big things?
Brett G.
Eat mor chikin
Mike W.
but I think we really need to confront the damage they are doing directly to the deployment if high speed networks in the US. And Verizon and Cisco are particularly guilty of these
Tree S.
the other other white meat
Jon L.
Brad: that's probably true for offsets, for sure.
alex g.
Brad T: Isn't it the opposite: that we're emphasizing the rest in order to avoid handling the 2%
shep
Ride the Acela.
Brad T.
So we should bomb more countries in the middle east? That would raise the price of fuel.
Frank P.
need massive public investment comparable to NASA in the 60s/70s to shift planet's energy sources away from all combustion based modes
Brett G.
I was annoyed when United started charging $$ to check a second bag
Heath R.
Amtrak
Jon L.
I'd love to see studies on the effectiveness of offsets.
Steven C.
anyone who flies instead of Amtrak, even at even-up money, is insane
Harold F.
I commute once a week to NYC via AMtrak. $98 each way.
Jon L.
And where the money actually goes.
Frank P.
Brad: also when they bruned Kuwait it threw a lot of hydrocarbons into the air
Apr 1
2:20 PM
alex g.
Brad T: The coming plague http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=t’Ķ will reduce carbon, no need for bombs
Steven C.
the high-speed connection in this case is spelled A-C-E-L-A
Robert C.
Amtrak +++
David B.
has left the room
Jim R.
Harold F how long does the trip take?
Ron S.
has entered the room
Tree S.
amtrak is more expensive. it costs more to take the train from paris to amsterdam than fly. same with paris london.
Adam M.
Forget Amtrak! Take a chinatown bus for approx $35 roundtrip. No TSA hassles, and you don't even need to show ID (which I believe you now do on Amtrak).
Mike W.
good comment, Bas
Brad T.
The global warming figures I see suggest there is not a generation of time available.
Brett G.
Amtrak ended its service to our city 10 years ago. The trains go by; they don't stop. Just like the fiber.
alex g.
hey google amtrak frak find the scheuldes yerself
Ron S.
China CO2 emissions are growing 109% *per year*
Ron S.
Will pass US this year
Steven C.
Brett, Amtrak outside the Boston-NYC-DC corridor is a different proposition entirely
Tree S.
new freedom with wings
Harold F.
Which highlights the problem of international treaties. Everyone has great arguments why someone else should be capped.
Brad T.
Can I upgrade to a larger screen with enough FF miles?
Harold F.
And lived!
Sara W.
the thing is, w/amtrak, they are not considered a 'worthy' subsidy whereas anything involving oil is.
Brett G.
We want Laramie-Cheyenne-Fort Collins-Loveland-Denver
JoePlotkin
speaking of energy saving, Im driving back to NYC tonight if anyone needs a ride (2 seats available)
Frank P.
ron: clean up of north america by moving dirty industry to asia is the working strategy
Brad T.
You still have hair, david?
John B.
$35 for NYC-DC bus? Try $1. http://www.boltbus.com
Ron S.
India growing 100%/year
alex g.
most profitable amtrak line is I think Kansas City - Okalahoma City
Brett G.
Is that the "wild chicken" Chinatown bus?
Sara W.
one of the reasons why those tickets are so expensive and the service so limited. trains don't feed the beast, therefore they are being starved to death
Tree S.
ron: not female-wise
Ron S.
video conferencing wont help much with that
Suw C.
i don't think there's a generation's worth of time to spend on this, and i think we need to think a lot harder about the cultural change that's required
Sara W.
View paste 
it makes me crazy
!
Brad T.
But he could get a computer virus.
Mike W.
just the point.... these companies are perfectly capable of doing the right thing, the right way. Cisco makes GREAT products. But WILL they put the same energy and thought into the public interest that they put into short term corporate profits, in the US?
Jon L.
Suw: a lot of people working on that.
Sara W.
(that paste above is not real...i think i hit the wrong button)
Mary B.
Suw +++
Heath R.
The scary real Internet
Steven C.
Brett, there are 50 mid-sized runs that make sense for Amtrak.... Austin-Dallas-Houston-San Antonio; Milwaukee-Chicago-St Louis-Memphis; Las Vegas-Phoenix-Tucson.... the west coast big cities, etc. at 300 mph, we could eliminate a lot of stupid inefficient flights
JoePlotkin
Suw ++ we need cradle2cradle thinking
Jim R.
Sara W what ever you say on the internet is there forever you cant take it back.
Brett G.
Suw, given that even silly tribal feuds last for thousands of years, is it practical to try to change culture in the time required?
Jon L.
A new sustainability economy must and will emerge.
Adam
has entered the room
alex g.
videophone etiquette skeptic blog post: http://weblogs.jupiterresearch.com/analyst’Ķ
Brad T.
Consider energy cost of building track SF to LA
Sara W.
if viruses can pass to people from birds, why not machines?
Iz W.
has entered the room
Chris S.
has entered the room
Apr 1
2:25 PM
Robert C.
Culturally, there is an extent that flying to meetings is ego. Those who get to fly to meetings are "really important" - and they get status brownie points.
Mike W.
we cannot reach this goal solely on the basis of incentives, tax, financial, social or otherwise, IMHO
Jim R.
only after we run out of gas.
Iz W.
you can also just video skype and it's pretty good too
Ron S.
Cisco + Verizon + BT = buy more of our stuff and be more green
Mike W.
the tech is there today
alex g.
Ron S +++
Brad T.
We won't run out of gas.
alex g.
there you go
Iz W.
without all the fancy equipment and broadband
Suw C.
brett: cultural change can happen very quickly, consider speed of adoption of cultural norms around mobile phone usage. but frequently it needs help
Sara W.
Jon L: I hope you're right, but I don't believe the power of the market, such as it is, is sufficient
Brad T.
Fascist!
Brett G.
I fly to meetings because I find that there's something instinctive about it -- to the extent that after you meet people face to face once you CAN then continue the conversation in cyberspace for years afterward. But it's not the same if you did not meet JUST ONCE.
alex g.
i have a 5 year plan
Suw C.
@robert: quite so. there's a sort of martyrdom involved "oh look, i travelled 24 hours for a one hour meeting, I mske such sacrifices"
Frank P.
stalinist!
shep
you can get FIOS, but it's not full internet connectivity.
Sara W.
so many people have so much invested in the status quo, and as a result of their having garnered so many resources, have the ability to control plenty of things that could be really positive and have limited to no downside. but they done' want to let it go.
Mike W.
David, you and few tens of thousands like you, in wealthy nabes
Mike W.
ichat works just great
Adam
itu is doing quite a lot of work on ICT and environment change -- obvious is standards to include things like deep sleep in all products etc. They are also trying to hold a few drafting meetings remotely. Meetings that people would usually to to geneva for. They work well, but are not as efficient, takes a number more hours of meeting to get the same work done as a physical meeting. Perhaps that's people getting used to a new way of work.
Sara W.
ok, fellas, what's with the tourette's-like barking of words like fascist and stalinist?
Frank P.
confiscatory taxation and strong public policy is what's needed now
Brett G.
There's something wired into our hardware that seems to need physical presence.
Mike W.
oh-oh, he is thinking again
Frank P.
sara: someone had a 5 yr plan. that's all
Heath R.
Bodies like bodies
Sara W.
do you just need to make a shout-out? is it an accusation? an anti-communication? an uncontrollable verbal tic?
Russ N.
FrankP: surely you jest.
Frank P.
about the stalinist label, yes... about the need for responsible public policy, no
Jim R.
when all else fails throw money at it.
Suw C.
remote meetings need to be run differently to face-to-face meetings, and we need to both provide the tech and the techniques in order for people to adopt.
Sara W.
ok, so five year plans are some sort of subliminal precursor to a personal outburst?! (i am teasing you)
Brett G.
Integrated (what) then?
Brad T.
NASA should open satellite offices.
Brett G.
Open or launch?
Brad T.
Remember "Information Superhighway"
Heath R.
w--ovo--w
Heath R.
Gilder Lives!
Chris S.
You trust DHS to run a national fiber network?
Robert C.
Hum. There are complex issues that require full interaction and face to face helps. But there are lots of problems that can be solved with a simple email or phone call. I know lots of people who travel across the country for a few minutes of content - it makes no sense.
Apr 1
2:30 PM
Doc S.
has entered the room
Apr 1
2:30 PM
Apr 1
2:30 PM
Sara W.
it's way more important to have a plan than that it be correct or that one faithfully implement it.....in fact implementing the plan as if it were a recipe is usually a big mistake
Chris S.
Please keep DHS out of it.
Russ N.
FrankP: responsible public policy is when you have less government and more public control.
Frank P.
Dept of Homeland Security is a poster child for sure
alex g.
eliminate the DHS
Brett G.
If DHS ran a fiber network, you would have to be fingerprinted and strip searched to use it.
alex g.
and nipple ringed
alex g.
not that i have one
Russ N.
FrankP: and the post office and the DMV, and ... and ...
Chris S.
and there'd be 60,000 americans named john smith and tom roberts who were forbidden from using the network
Brad T.
Not that there's anything wrong with that
Frank P.
in my township we effect programs by planning and taxing and strong majorities find agreement if not consensus
Brad T.
JoB -- Jesus over Broadband
Mike W.
you can expect DHS to be abolished early next year
Brad T.
The Isenberg
Frank P.
Mike W: sure hope so
Doc S.
Be the iceberg.
Russ N.
FrankP: and then they force the minority who disagrees to do what the majority wants. That's not freedom.
Brett G.
Be the Titanic.
Harold F.
Happily, thanks to climate change, the iceberg is melting.
Chris S.
Fios depends on child labor and the blood of baby seals?
Brett G.
Or, better, be the lifeboat
Tree S.
be the deckchairs
Michael W.
how is this different from the 'use long distance' ads of years ago?
Iz W.
be the ocean
Robert C.
DHS is an amalgamation of previously existing entities. Take DHS, many of those will still exist. FBI. Customs. Secret Service. INS. FEMA.
Harold F.
Iceberg, Isenberg, what's the difference?
Mike W.
but what about buildout?
Brett G.
Hindenburg
Jim R.
has left the room
Chris S.
Won't someone please think of the gigabits?
Mike W.
how can you build a network...if you are not building a network?
Brad T.
If we had telepresence, who would have needed to sail on the titanic?
alex g.
solar panels, wave energy, wind power
Mike W.
BT is the only company on this panel that is actually walking its talk
Frank P.
need a new committed civil service with the expertise to administer public policy and ride herd on the corporations
Sara W.
i view blimpy as the integrated solution to all the metaphors and analogies under discussion here
alex g.
Brett G.
They would have had to sail on the Titanic just to put the lower classes below decks.
Brad T.
Plus once we melt the ice caps, after a while there will be fewer icebergs.
Russ N.
FrankP: we need better citizens, too -- but then any form of government would work.
Sara W.
you are certainly the optimist, aren't you brad?
Heath R.
Ice caps and trade?
alex g.
structural separation now
JoePlotkin
alex ++
Chris S.
Verizon: Can I please keep the copper in my home for DSL from someone else when you install the fiber?
Russ N.
FrankP: you *do* know about Public Choice, no?
judi
what about all of the prior investment we've already paid to incumbent investors?
Sara W.
SSN
Brett G.
Structural separation of the ship and the iceberg
alex g.
has left the room
Mary B.
Every single person needs to take responsbility. Be the change you want to see in the world.
Mary B.
has left the room
Russ N.
But don't try to force people who disagree with you.
Frank P.
be the folding moeny ytou want to see in the world
Apr 1
2:35 PM
Robert C.
When you go get a drink during break - recycle!
Sara W.
For starters, we need to institute the recycling of platitudes
Sara W.
that would wreck the market for 2/3 or more of the drek business books out on the market and save countless trees
Doc S.
What's the carbon footprint of television -- even if it's delivered over fiber (saving transmitter costs, to say the least)? I ask because I already have 20Mb symmetrical FiOS, as part of a "triple play" including cable-like TV and POTS. I'd be glad to drop the other two, if Verizon would unbundle them, or make them a la carte. Just saying.
Robert C.
You need to distinguish between the content and the transmission medium.
Robert C.
You seem to be asking about the carbon footprint of the TV transmission medium
Robert C.
Whose a stealth liberal?
Apr 1
2:40 PM
Tom M.
has left the room
Apr 1
2:45 PM
JoePlotkin
has left the room
Adam M.
has left the room
FACO
has left the room
Michael W.
has left the room
Steven C.
has left the room
Brad T.
has left the room
Michael B.
has left the room
Paul H.
has left the room
Mike W.
has left the room
Doc S.
Hey, we need a Mac dongle, the DVI kind. See doc or ..
Harold F.
has left the room
Adam
has left the room
Apr 1
2:50 PM
Suw C.
has left the room
Sara W.
has left the room
Nicholas G.
has left the room
Drew C.
has left the room
Heath R.
The EFF just celebrated their 666th edition of the EFFector.
Russ N.
4/1/08
Heath R.
Yeah
Apr 1
2:55 PM
Chris S.
has left the room
Matt T.
has entered the room
Russ N.
Matt T.
i cannot locate the fiber
Tree S.
they just shut down the feed. i was enjoying watching the musicians have a conversation not about carbon footprints.
Apr 1
3:00 PM
judi
Tree, they're plotting the overthrow of the world as we know it now.
judi
We don't want to know.
judi
Anyway, they're playing a concert later tonight. I'm sure they said nothing about that...
Tree S.
they were good yesterday.
Apr 1
3:05 PM
Mary B.
has entered the room
Apr 1
3:10 PM
Sean D.
has left the room
Iz W.
has left the room
judi
Iz has not left the room. Her computer left the room
Frank P.
has left the room
Mike W.
has entered the room
Adam
has entered the room
Apr 1
3:15 PM
alex g.
has entered the room
JoePlotkin
has entered the room
Brad T.
has entered the room
Michael B.
has entered the room
Frank P.
has entered the room
Brad T.
I love the story of Pia Zadora playing Anna Frank
Robert C.
has left the room
Jim R.
has entered the room
Suw C.
has entered the room
Mike W.
the hero path is thoroughly known
Michael W.
has entered the room
Tree S.
yet seldom traveled
Apr 1
3:20 PM
Mike W.
now that's an inconvenient truth
Frank P.
when do we get the flying cars?
David I.
John Holdren is the smartes climate scientist on the planet
Tom M.
has entered the room
Robert C.
has entered the room
David I.
smartest
Dean L.
Frank: when the toasters land and clear the space
David I.
I know him VERY well.
Tree S.
how well?
Tree S.
well well?
David I.
We often spend the night together! . . .
David I.
fishing.
alex g.
wells are inferior to rain harvesting
Mike W.
in fact, they (C&T) are intended to delay changes, not to accelerate them
Mike W.
name again?
David I.
John Holdren
Robert C.
Someone in room please post when the video goes back online - thank you
Doc S.
The Ice Age is still ending. (Even as the Isenberg Age is just starting.) Perspective: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:GreatLa’Ķ
judi
what the heck is cap and trade?
David I.
he's also a Harvard Kennedy School prof
judi
sorry, harvard's server is having a problem
judi
will keep you posted.
Drew C.
has entered the room
Dean L.
judi: sounds like graduation day at vocational school
Tree S.
david, say no more
Brett G.
Ostriches do not hide their heads in the sand. The use their beaks to dig for bugs.
Frank P.
judi
try now?
judi
dean: feels like one too
Robert C.
Thnx
Mike W.
hell, we don't even recycle bottles in most of the US
Steven C.
has entered the room
judi
is video online now?
Mike W.
butters?
Apr 1
3:25 PM
alex g.
judi
thx alex
Robert C.
yes
Steven C.
Kyoto imposed caps (maximum amounts) on its signatories, and let them trade excess carbon emissions with places that were under their limits
alex g.
many want cap and trade in place of a carbon tax
alex g.
robin wants both
Tree S.
back on here in fr.
David I.
We need as much as we can get
Katy S.
has entered the room
judi
so if I have enough spare cash to buy all the available carbon offsets, I can pollute all I want?
judi
so THAT's why it delays not accellerates.
Dean L.
judi - you end up in a bidding ware with Al Gore
alex g.
i don't have a car so there
Russ N.
judi: no, it wouldn't work that way.
Dean L.
war, not ware
Mike W.
but, but, what about all those kids selling light bulbs
David I.
actually air travel is huge . . . for me one coast-2-coast air RT a month makes air travel twice as high as (a) my house AND (b) my car.
Mary B.
Doc S.
ZipCar was a freaking brilliant idea. Still is.
Russ N.
judi: nobody has enough spare cash to buy all the carbon offsets, anymore than anybody has enough spare cash to buy all the (fill in the blank), because other people with spare cash will also want them.
Mike W.
minus the cigar butts and last week's NYT
Adam
has left the room
Steven C.
ZipCar is brilliant, but it's nothing like having your own car
alex g.
no there's a limited amount of pollution to buy -- so if you buy the right to pollute everybody else's right to pollute goes up in price
alex g.
thus, a market
JoePlotkin
the problem with C+T is that if a co is non-poluting, then it is incentivized to sell those "rights" for cash
Brett G.
So many people do not understand the laws of physics. If you need to heat your house, leaving the lights on ALL the time expends no extra energy, because virtually all of the energy ultimately becomes heat. I leave the lights on in our electrically heated laboratory/tech support area 24x7, and it is no less efficient than if I do not.
Frank P.
did it with bicycles in the 60s but they were free
judi
understood, thx
Sara W.
has entered the room
Frank P.
not that I go back that far
alex g.
problem with cap and trade is rewards bad players and penalizes those who acted ahead of time to limit pollution, IIRC
David I.
calculate your own carbon budget here http://www.terrapass.com/wedding/weddingcalc.php
Steven C.
with ZipCar you "own" the car for a matter of hours, even Hertz/Avis is more like owning a car than ZipCar
Doc S.
ZipCar is perfect for *many* urban and suburban settings. Where I live near Boston, it's perfect. You pay per hour less than you'll pay to park in some places.
Russ N.
Brett G: but there are cheaper ways to get that energy. Energy costs vary.
Brett G.
ZipCar is sort of like a taxi that you drive yourself. That can be good or bad.
Micah S.
has entered the room
Mike W.
in the state of WA, all state offices are located as far away from existing transit and other buildings in order to benefits from the low costs of cheap land
Apr 1
3:30 PM
Doc S.
Brett, people use it for what's it's good for, not what it's bad for.
Michael W.
I haven't owned a car in years. I work at home and use Zipcar 2-3 days/month
Brad T.
has left the room
David I.
Brett, how would it be bad? wondering . . .
alex g.
when I take carbon budget quizzes I win by not using a car; other bad behavior is negligible (using an elevator in my apt. bldg, for example)
Brett G.
Actually, electric heat can be quite efficient.
Tree S.
our bike rental program has been a huge success here in paris
Jim R.
what do you use ZipCar for that you cant do on public transportation?
alex g.
Jim: grocery shopping?
Brett G.
Among other things, I can switch fuels without changing anything. It's done upstream of me.
Mike W.
its a great service when you travel. Cheaper than renting a car
Tree S.
i think they are implementing a zip car like progrm
Mike W.
I'm already loco
Steven C.
Jim, try to go shopping at HomeDepot or Ikea by NYC subway/buses
alex g.
mike but are you doing the locomotion
Mary B.
If you need to buy something big or lots of groceries its better than a bus
alex g.
Mary ++
Chris R.
ZipCar = grocery shopping, Target trips, and the occasional weekend getaway; two-day rental is cheaper than a round trip Amtrak ticket; also, cheaper than $100-200/month for parking
Michael W.
shopping and longer trips (like out to my employer for very occassional meetings)
Brett G.
The awkward thing about the ZipCar is that the meter is running even when it's parked. So, even if you are energy-efficient and drive less, you can wind up paying more.
Mike W.
Steven, it can be done if the packages are later delivered by truck
Tony A.
has entered the room
Steven C.
Mike, even getting to Ikea by mass transit is a challenge, and often you want to start assembling that night
Jim R.
going to Ikea with a full size van can be a challenge.
Steven C.
Mike, going from Queens to a party in Brooklyn might take 90 minutes by mass transit and 20 minutes by car
Harold F.
has entered the room
Russ N.
How are you going to save the world without giving up what other people will not.
Frank P.
Tree there's a Velib slide up
Tree S.
psychic of the mundane
Apr 1
3:35 PM
Tree S.
heree
Apr 1
3:35 PM
Mike W.
Look, everyone else in the world seems able to overcome these challenges. Can't we try and do it, too. This is NOT impossible.
Harold F.
Yo! Sacha or someone else! Give URL for next International Wireless Summit!!!!!
Tree S.
here
Russ N.
Yes, we may as well start being poor now.
Tree S.
they are doing that, too, in paris. charging cars to enter the city. good idea.
Frank P.
how real is this planning?
Mike W.
butters?
Michael W.
You pay for driving a car into Oslo, too
alex g.
abutters
alex g.
RTFG google
Mike W.
Kenny's dead.
Tree S.
we have one car for 7 people. cost 4 grand cash. we drive to the train because we live in the country, take the train to paris and then get bikes.
Suw C.
UK national vehical tracking database uses automatic numberplate recognition software and existing camera network.
Frank P.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abutter sounds like an awkward neologism
Tree S.
americans are ridiculously greedy
Robert C.
has left the room
Angela S.
David I.
abread and abutter
Suw C.
stated aim: "denying criminals the use of the road". and someone mentioned privacy?
Dean L.
that would be ab abneologism
Tree S.
that is a Big part of the problem
Paul H.
has entered the room
alex g.
john lewis is on the terror watch list
Brett G.
Test
Tree S.
not sure donkey image is such a good idea
alex g.
oh, but it's an e-donkey
Jim R.
at most 200k cars into city in single day (+/-) leaves a lot of bandwidth left in a multipurpose mesh network.
Tom M.
Tree +++
Tree S.
just saying
Angela S.
Brett G.
Mesh networks are not practical. Where's the spectrum? What do you do when a node moves and you were relying on it? Why do it instead of encouraging buildout of fixed wireless networks like ours?
Russ N.
Tree: everyone is ridiculously greedy. It's the human condition.
Apr 1
3:40 PM
Frank P.
Donkey
alex g.
apt bldgs don't allow run dishwahser at midnight
Tree S.
what's next ping pong ball analogies?
Jim R.
hey ever shrek needs a donkey.
judi
it's that pony in a boat upon the sea...
alex g.
similes, there's a dearth of similes, like
Dean L.
we are back to Lyle Lovett!
Tree S.
yes we icann
Harold F.
First prize, 1 yr on ICANN bd. Second prize, 2 yrs on ICANN bd.
Frank P.
View paste 
Thought is like a little boat upon the sea.
Everybody is a part of everything anyway,
You can have everything if you let yourself be.
Jim R.
icann has cheezeburger?
Adam
has entered the room
Tree S.
laughing
Harold F.
But not as cute.
Adam
think David meant ISOC board.
alex g.
Brett G.
(Sings:) ICANN do anything better than you....
Tree S.
s-nap!
Brett G.
Was that a twig snapping?
shep
Adam--- ah, that makes sense. I wasn't aware that ICANN board was elected.
Dean L.
http://tinyurl.com/9sxfp Lyle Lovett If I Had A Boat lyrics
Brett G.
No, we all know that the Inernet is a dictatorship. ;-)
Steven C.
Brett, MeshNetworks (the Florida company that got bought by Motorola) did rerouting on the fly, when the mesh elements included cars driving at highway speeds
Apr 1
3:45 PM
David I.
Did I say ICANN board? sorry, after 2 days my brain is mushy. ISOC is correct.
Brett G.
When about 50% of the population has been fooled by political operatives and talk show hosts into believing that CO2 is not a problem, how can we expect action even in a much greater amount of time before there is a crisis?
Tree S.
how bout we start off getting rid of Monsanto?
Brad T.
has entered the room
Brett G.
I am sad to say it, but as a pragmatist I believe that the best I can do is prepare, not prevent.
Tree S.
we have to deal with the poisoning the earth first.
Frank P.
google and MS and the Colubia River with decreasing rainfall due to climate change... think about it
Frank P.
columbia
David I.
Tree, we have to deal with it all together now . . .
judi
Thanks to all participants who are ducking while walking in front of the camera. So far, none of you have been seen.
Brett G.
David, how do we get the other half of the population on board?
Tree S.
we are raping mom-nature with gen-mod techniques that are fast-tracked through the fda.
Brett G.
We cannot even start until we have a substantial majority interested in doing something.
David I.
good question . . . how about more green broadband conferences?
David I.
Brett, not true, we can start one person at a time.
Brett G.
How would that influence Congress?
David I.
but we should work towards shorter doubling intervals
Tree S.
we Have to. NOW.
Russ N.
start doing what? Global warming will be a real problem when beachfront property in Florida plummets in value.
Brad T.
So a Prius is evil?
Russ N.
Until then, global warming isn't a problem.
Jim R.
hey wait I have beachfront property in florida.
Brad T.
Actually, if you took extra cost of battery pack in Prius and put it into carbon credits, it's enough gas to drive a Hummer around the planet 25 times.
David I.
Prius is a good first step. Better than no prius
Russ N.
nevermind what people say. watch what they buy.
JoePlotkin
Brad - not evil - but not the solution either
Harold F.
Russ N: Already happened. The cost of insurance has gone through the roof.
alex g.
energy efficiency -- a good point I like the red text too
Frank P.
zero carbon solution
Russ N.
Huh? The price of flood insurance has always been unaffordable.
Frank P.
russ not if you live on the hill
Apr 1
3:50 PM
Brett G.
My property in Wyoming will go up in value because the weather will get better. It already is. Spring is coming two weeks early. (In fact, it did here in DC. They scheduled the Cherry Blossom Festival for mid-April and the trees are already in bloom. By the time of the festival the blossoms may have fallen off the trees.)
David I.
Hey, "lite" cigarettes were a step in building awareness about smoking, even tho themselves, they're NFG
Brad T.
Let's all fly to a conference to discuss how to save carbon with broadband.
Russ N.
Too late! You're already there!
shep
globe-spanning telecommunications probably encourages traveling about the globe, because you want from time to time to go see these people face to face that you are communicating with on the net.
alex g.
property x feet above sea level will become more valuable too
Matt T.
bradT ++
Brad T.
Cfgw
David I.
:-)
Aleecia M.
has entered the room
alex g.
brad u have a link for that?
Brett G.
We have renewable energy in our area of Wyoming. Lots of wind turbines. But just try to get the fiber backbones to open up to data centers near those turbines. They won't! (As I said yesterday, they won't open up even for our city.)
Joshua A.
has left the room
Brad T.
alex g.
tks
FACO
has entered the room
Heath R.
The church I walked past this morning on the way to the train station had a big sign in front saying it was 100% wind powered
Heath R.
I have wind power at home, too.
Micah S.
so far, the only speaker who has told me anything that ordinary people can do about global warming was Robin
Russ N.
BradT: errr, wouldn't that Canadian flag be on the opposite shore from Canada with the CN tower there?
Jim R.
why are we hearing more about reducing carbon usage for outside of the US than within. OH Wait... W.
Brad T.
That photo is from Toronto Island
Brett G.
Heath: Was that a reference to the sermons?
Brad T.
Photoshopped onto Hanalai in Kaui`i
Heath R.
The holy ghost is often mistaken for a gust of hot air
Frank P.
dude
Apr 1
3:55 PM
Russ N.
MicahS: that's because you can't do anything about global warming other than adapt to it. How do you personally, in your city, need to adapt? Versus how will the Bangladeshi need to adapt?
Brett G.
Or how Venetians will need to adapt
Tom M.
heath -- how do you have wind power? I thought you lived in Bklyn?
alex g.
RussL NYC under water -- the subway is especially threatened.
David I.
but the ph d student had better hurry!
Jim R.
The question is will the real solutions come from the big companies or from the local smart people?
alex g.
because if any part of the subway gets water it all does -- this was a real danger in 9/11
Brad T.
Tasty, tasty taxes
Chris R.
has left the room
Katy S.
has left the room
David I.
Bangladesh needs to build dikes.
Russ N.
MicahS: IMHO what's needed is for people in rich countries to buy shorefront property in Bangladesh (&etc) knowing that it will drop in value. This will allow Bangladeshis to move higher.
Micah S.
Russ N. I totally disagree. As Clay Shirky is about to explain, we the hypernetworked can do more today to link together to solve problems creatively than ever before
Jim R.
hey in Chicago the shut down the city when one pole poked thru to the infostructure
Brad T.
Buy land, son. They've started unmaking it.
Heath R.
Brett G.
We the hypernetworked will have trouble convincing the barely networked... and the people who are networked into the Fox News Network.
alex g.
i thought it was a cow in chicago but don't remember the story
Micah S.
Thanks to Robin, I can help spread GoLoco usage and ZipCar usage and push the needle a little more in the right direction
Brett G.
Privacy issues with "virtual" computers
Mike W.
wha?
Brad T.
Anybody want to goloco with me to IAD for 7:30 departure?
Micah S.
Brett G. That kind of cynicism is your political choice, not mine.
Mike W.
where's my million $$?
alex g.
carbon heroes
Brett G.
Micah: Alas, it is reality. I do not like it but I will not pretend it's not so
alex g.
i work from home it want a medal
Tree S.
carbon copies
Russ N.
MicahS++ Brett G: don't worry about dragging along the people who don't agree. Do what YOU can.
David I.
Russ+++
Brad T.
ie. I'm driving if you need a ride to Dulles
Tony A.
Small data point about tax policy for getting people to use public transport. In NYC, the TransitCheck program let's me pay up to $115 of my railroad ticket each month with pre-tax dollars. But.... it also let's me use $220/month towards parking fees (at my office or the local train station). So much for providing the right incentives.
Brett G.
Without govt on board we can do nothing effective
Russ N.
BrettG--
Micah S.
BTW, the people who are networked into Fox News are not forever lost to us, IMHO.
alex g.
tony ++
David I.
Brett I thought you were a libertarian, not a big govt type
Russ N.
Without government on board, you can't start up a wireless ISP. <--- similarly wrong.
alex g.
micah: the people who think fox is too liberal, however. . .
Tony A.
But I get no tax incentive to by 20MBS pipes to my house so I can telecommute.
Apr 1
4:00 PM
Mike W.
and they are trying to keep you from building fiber because it is a competitive network
Steven C.
tony++ on the small data point
Brad T.
I watch Fox News for all my henhouse coverage
Micah S.
part of the genius of Robin's stuff is that it is apolitical. Giving people ways to save money on cars appeals to their self-interest.
Brett G.
I am. But libertarians recognize that govt does have a function: to defend us against that which will deprive us of our liberties.
Steven C.
everything other than MetroCard is more than $115/month (NJTransit, MetroNorth, etc.)
Russ N.
MicahS: it's all about the incentives. Appeal to people's self-interest and you can move the world.
Harold F.
Bill gets it!
Mike W.
and how to you compete with the cross-subsidies of the incumbent providers. Their commercial projects are heavlily subsidized by local telephone customers
Harold F.
Government invest in infrastructure for multiple purposes.
Jim R.
brett g how will the government protect my liberties that the goverment is taking away.
Brad T.
The standard definition of Free
Frank P.
Brett G: threats such as monopoly capitalism and predatory financial markets?
Tony A.
Sounds like a tax to me. It may be the right policy, but it don't fly down here south of the border.
Russ N.
JimR++
alex g.
can I get $$$ back for returning energy to the grid with wind or solar?
Russ N.
FrankP: name a monopoly.
Aaron W.
has left the room
Tony A.
alex g. Yes. THe utilities buy it back
shep
If I'm going to stay home and telecomute, than I'm going to want more heat in the winter and more air conditioning in the summer. Hmmm.
Brett G.
Harold: Indeed. Development of shared infrastructure is another legitimate role of government.
Jim R.
works well unless you can not afford a computer
Angela S.
Its a great idea but I would have a hard time selling it in Ohio.
alex g.
shep: so add wind or solar to home (I cannot)
Russ N.
FrankP: if you can't name a monopoly, then there is no such thing as monopoly capitalism.
Mike W.
Bill, happened in Canada, but not in the US
Michael W.
I think buyback laws vary considerably by state
alex g.
michael: yes, true
Harold F.
worked better of natural gas than for electric grid.
Frank P.
russ n describe the market
Brett G.
Let's not get into a huge discussion of populist libertarianism (which is what I lean strongly toward -- as opposed to corporate libertarianism or neoliberalism)
Jim R.
free computers
Tree S.
free beard
Dean L.
JR -- free them from what?
Mike W.
strands! yeah baby
Jim R.
from the chains of spinning drives.
Brad T.
Only problem is that in Ottawa they skate to work on that canal in the winter. Green, but also very cold.
alex g.
I see the flaw in the plan: assumes level 3 will do business with you!
Russ N.
strands are practically free once you've hauled the first one.
Mike W.
Rideau canal
Apr 1
4:05 PM
Brad T.
Ok, I will install the 2nd strand first, which is free, and add the 1st strand once I have a market
Brett G.
Russ, wish that were true. But the equipment to light them costs megabucks.
alex g.
blog he mentioned: green-broadband.blogspot.com
Mike W.
kind of the Rideau canal of broadband
Adam
has left the room
Frank P.
holdren, not coltrane
Russ N.
BradT: snicker.
Joshua A.
has entered the room
Brett G.
I have lots of Mormon friends who are already caching food.
Michael W.
other people are going to suffer much more than the people in this room
Russ N.
errrr, they always do that, Brett.
Jim R.
The mormons have been caching food for a long time.
Tree S.
did you just call me coltrane? (fp, royal tannenbaums ref.)
Brett G.
Which only goes to show that if you wait long enough, a cataclysm actually WILL happen.
Drew C.
"caching" = storage?
Brett G.
Drew: Yes
Drew C.
you cache memory; never heard about food
Brett G.
But these guys are doubling and tripling their caches. Whole basements.
Jim R.
yes a years worth was I remember right
Brett G.
Sam's Club is making a fortune from them.
Tree S.
time for a global potlatch.
Apr 1
4:10 PM
alex g.
global potlach? we've got it. it's called war
alex g.
we talk the tradition and took out the friendship
Tree S.
seen
Ellen M.
has entered the room
Michael W.
wasn't potlatch about giving stuff away?
Russ N.
yes.
Tree S.
yes, distribution of wealth.
Russ N.
No, conspicuous consumption.
Russ N.
"Look, I am wealthy; see how much I can afford to give to you?"
Heath R.
Jim R.
conspicuous consumption has made us what we are today. Hey wait a minute...
Frank P.
interesting perception, Russ
alex g.
giving away -- by burning it, IIRC
Russ N.
Frank P: Museum of Civilization, Hull QC (across the river from Ottawa) explains it very well.
Tree S.
i respectfully disagree. not only did we kill everyone who practiced this but we have embraced the greed model to a disgusting and life threatening degree.
judi
has left the room
alex g.
well, the greed was ours, not theirs
Frank P.
did the Hudsons Bay Company build the exhibit?
Russ N.
Tree: human desires are infinite. Resources are limited.
Harold F.
Consider that every library that gets USF has a connection that it cannot share with its neighborood.
Steven C.
alex, potlatch is sometimes destruction, but sometimes just gifts. the key is "I'm so rich I don't need it"
Angela S.
David, that would be a good session for next year - state and local networks. Having a discussion about those that are being utilized and we can better utilize them in other states.
Apr 1
4:15 PM
Russ N.
s/utilize/use/ simpler speech is better speech.
Angela S.
Harold, some libraries do share their connections. I have examples in OH.
Russ N.
my local village library has an associated open wifi node.
Matt T.
has left the room
Harold F.
My understaning is tht there is uncertainty based on the language of USF agreements that limit "resale".
Harold F.
I'm glad when I encounter examples of the shared infrastructure, but there are a lot of institutions that don't share becuase they are worried it would be illegal or disrupt their relationships with private sector.
Angela S.
Which is very sad.
Brett G.
In most cases, it's an excuse, not a reason.
Russ N.
Nobody is selling wifi in my village, so perhaps they feel as you expect, but provide anyway.
Mary B.
has left the room
alex g.
situation of libraries very difft from situation of libraries
Tree S.
well, in paris you have to have a credit card to secure the free for 30 minute bikes, which narrows down the field.
alex g.
ooh i;m tired. I meant that USF seems to restrict schools more than libraries
Brett G.
What was the name of the comedian who always splatters the audience? Irish name, I recall.
Harold F.
Could be. All I have are anecdotes.
Jim R.
Gallagher
Russ N.
Gallagher
Harold F.
Our utter lack of data is appalling.
Harold F.
That we make policy based on our ignorance is even worse.
Brett G.
Yep! Thx.
Brad T.
Here comes everybody (worth speaking of)
Apr 1
4:20 PM
Ron S.
has left the room
Heath R.
Shir-ky! Shir-ky! Shir-ky!
Russ N.
Gathering information to make policy is the reason why the Economic Calculation problem makes market-less socialism impossible.
Micah S.
w00t!
Frank P.
Jim R.
should we all do the wave?
Russ N.
Hello Mr. Shirky. Wave to the microphone.
Tree S.
skull + baring the bones
Heath R.
Wave starts on the left
Brad T.
Taxi monopolies have pulled off even more bizarre stunts in real life
Brett G.
Two years ago, Congress almost passed a law that required ISPs to get permission to operate
Michael W.
isn't that what goloco is doing? coordinating cars?
Frank P.
Doc S.
"every inefficiency you can find is somebody's top-line profits." Good line,
Russ N.
The personal automobile (WHEN FULL) is as efficient as mass transit at the typical loading.
Mike W.
has left the room
Brad T.
Actually, the solo driven car is equivalently efficient to city bus and twice as efficient as light rail in San Jose
Doc S.
"we are living through the largest expansion in expressive capability in history."
Frank P.
cool high-top black leather with composition soles
Steven C.
Russ - because mass transit hasn't enjoyed quite the same subsidies as auto transit
Tree S.
thanks franklin
Frank P.
yvw
Brad T.
No, those numbers are not derived from subsidies
Apr 1
4:25 PM
Russ N.
StevenC: no, I'm talking OpEx.
Doc S.
Corollary: largest expansion of practical intellectual non-property. There are now over half a million open source code bases. Nearly all created for practical purposes by hackers who just needed to get stuff done.
Brad T.
Car averages 3600 btu/pm, Bus is about the same, light rail is 1400 to 8000 depending on city.
Steven C.
Russ, of course, but they're not easily separated
Brad T.
Electric scooter is about 120 btu/pm, slightly better than human cyclist.
Tree S.
freedom to and freedom from
Harold F.
Most conversation is banal, definitionally. That does mean everyone needs to shut up.
Jim R.
pm (per mile)?
Harold F.
OK, bad example, But still . . .
Frank P.
freedom skull and freedom bones
Brett G.
"Here comes Everybody" -- Shirky
David I.
person-mile?
Brett G.
"No one goes there anymore; it's too crowded." -- Yogi Berra
Russ N.
StevenC: CapEx for cars is paid-for by individuals, CapEx for mass is paid-for by individual taxpayers.
Sara W.
yes, but what about the banality of evil?
Brad T.
Shake
Frank P.
all your base r belong to us?
Tony A.
++ on person-mile. Is it 3600 BTU/person/mile or just 3600/mile?
Brad T.
The top scrolled off. It says, "Thy castle I hath infiltrated, thy knights are made eliminated"
Brett G.
"Stickiness" -- that's why Amazon could not compete with eBay
Brad T.
3600 btus per passenger mile. But car average occupancy is 1.1
Ellen M.
has left the room
Brett G.
"Lock-in"
Sara W.
so the operating model for the corporation of the future is the octopus? the pit of quicksand?
Sara W.
wow that doesn't sound too voluntary
Brett G.
The ball and chain.
Brad T.
"Your call is very important to us. Just not important enough to let you talk to a human being right now"
Sara W.
indentured servitude? the company store:
Sara W.
?
Russ N.
internet lowers transaction costs, makes larger corporations less efficient.
Micah S.
this is Doc Searls argument about why Ralph Nader is out of date: we the consumers have the power to defend ourselves in many new and powerful ways
David I.
comparatively less efficient!
Brett G.
Russ: Non sequitur
Brad T.
But how energy efficient is the cluetrain?
Apr 1
4:30 PM
Russ N.
BrettG: read Ronald Coase.
Apr 1
4:30 PM
Ellen M.
has entered the room
Micah S.
Facebook does need to open up its rule that limits emails to Group members to 1000 per burst
Brett G.
I've read Coase.
Sara W.
no we don't! (re-the tools to defend outselves. heck, we can't even FIND the perp.)
Frank P.
Micah S.
the twittering class is on the rise
Brad T.
Anybody twittering this?
Brad T.
I'm not sick but I'm not well.
David I.
in Spain texting on mobiles chnged the govt
Brett G.
People do not have any tolerance for spam, crippling e-mail as a tool to recruit for organizations
shep
hmm, I'm thinking that e-mail might just go away (people will stop reading it). XMPP might replace it.
Frank P.
twitter hashtags #f2c and #f2c2008
Sara W.
i only utter grave pronouncements, never lightweight little twitters ;-)
Tom M.
has left the room
Michael W.
we did earth hour at home. that was sort of a flashmob maybe?
Sara W.
frank: creepy
Brad T.
I loved the shirtless men shopping gag.
Micah S.
don't zombie walks in SF happen without any coordination?
Brett G.
Santarchy
Brad T.
Mmmmm. Braaaaaiiinns.
Aldon H.
has entered the room
Sara W.
however, i did just now utter a grave pronouncement on twitter concerning the migration of my mental capacities downward the longer i sit
Mike W.
has entered the room
Russ N.
SF also has a yearly pillow fight. SF is not in the same universe as the rest of the US, or even Calif.
Jim R.
our own flash mob raise your hand if you twitter
Brad T.
Cold seeking missile.
Mike W.
Santarchy is a religious ritual.
Sara W.
i raised my hand. where are the rest of you?
Mike W.
twitter is so 2007
Frank P.
I raised my hand but felt foolish
Sara W.
so what?
Dean L.
I raised my virtual hand
Micah S.
US=a high freedom environment. Hmm. Now I'm thinking about Marcuse's notion of repressive tolerance.
Apr 1
4:35 PM
Brad T.
They need a cold seeking missile in Belarus
Sara W.
i always feel foolish, twitter unnecessary to achieve that effect
Tree S.
i gave a snappy salute
Frank P.
Micah ++
Micah S.
i stretched my arms up suggestively
Micah S.
it would be rude to Clay to wave during his talk
Brad T.
Hold on officer, while I twitter that you're arresting me.
Frank P.
my tgought too
Tree S.
then i gave a gallic shrug
Jim R.
I bent from the elbow.
Tree S.
he waved
Sara W.
i missed the salute, i missed the suggestive lifting of arms, I missed it all.....and i am sitting in the far back row. you are too coy. (so am i, truth be told)
Brad T.
We gave them a sticker they couldn't refuse.
Sara W.
i totally missed the gallic shrug, but then of course you are in gaul, which i find quite galling considering that i belong there myself
Brett G.
* (Asterix)
Brad T.
They would wind up with their printer in their bed, covered in inkjet ink.
Tree S.
Had we but world enough, and time, This coyness, lady, were no crime.
Sara W.
so if i could see you i might be a candidate for a code 301 (involuntary) psychiatric commitment.
Frank P.
Marvel ous
Sara W.
oops i meant code 302. the 301 was a typo
Micah S.
bad-a-ping, bad-a-boom
Dean L.
Sara: as Freud said, there are no typos
Brett G.
"You are a booby. And I am going to have you put in the booby hatch!"
Sara W.
i thought he said: "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."
Brett G.
-- James Thurber
Tree S.
she was afreud to get jungian
Brad T.
He's not on myspace.
Sara W.
ouch.
Frank P.
yo mama
Dean L.
actually he said a sometimes a cigar is just a cigra
Sara W.
yo mama squared
Sara W.
a what?
Dean L.
thus debunking the whole typo thing
Sara W.
what is a cigra?
Sara W.
you need help dean, and you need it now.
Apr 1
4:40 PM
Brad T.
I'm just here for the Cherry Garcia
Apr 1
4:40 PM
Dean L.
a dyslexic Cuban product
Sara W.
notwithstanding the fact you may be incurable. professionally speaking
alex g.
i remember the good old days when the jokes were funny and and and oh never mind i don't remember any of the jokes
Tree S.
ciga rello
Sara W.
but, some people are better when mental
Brett G.
(Singing:) I love Rocky Road....
Frank P.
Tiparello
Brad T.
If you're still smiling when the cops are grabbing you...
Sara W.
joke: why do WASPS never have orgies?
Micah S.
Is that a politician in your pocket? Or are you just happy to see me?
Brett G.
You'd BETTER smile when the cops grab you.
Sara W.
answer: too many thank you notes
Frank P.
Havana Banana
Brad T.
In Ottawa the winters are so cold the politicians keep their hands in their own pockets.
Dean L.
Havana Barbera -- comic cigars
Sara W.
that's it, i've exhausted my repertoire
Jim R.
Hanna Barberra
Tree S.
unless you're a massachusetts judge arrested on a dui coming over the nh line in a lbd and blue eyeshadow, appointed by bush...
Brett G.
Libel, slander, etc. are torts. You don't carve them out of the basic right.
Brad T.
Nah, couldn't be.
Harold F.
has left the room
judi
has entered the room
alex g.
power from the neck of gun
Tree S.
a klein bottle
Brett G.
Remember how the Russians treated FAX machines as more dangerous than plutonium?
Brad T.
Silicone sealant flows from the barrel of a gun.
Dean L.
Tree, is that a vague Union Square reference? Oh, no, that wuold be *S* Klein
Micah S.
george soros helped foment revolution in e. europe by paying for fax machines
Brett G.
Chomsky claims that the media go much further than that
Tree S.
watch amy goodman last week, "so wrong for so long"
Aldon H.
has left the room
JoePlotkin
Yeah ITP!!
Brett G.
He's an ultraliberal but has a point
Brad T.
Why do they call it "dialing" a phone?
Steven C.
6 white men in NYC
Micah S.
you should bring an old TV set into class and show them how the knob only has 13 numbers on it
Apr 1
4:45 PM
Dean L.
and it is hard to explain the meaning of a "broken record"
Brad T.
Just show your collection of black 12-inch CDs
Dean L.
Steven C: How dare you call Sue Simmons a white man!
Brad T.
While they still know what CDs are.
Jim R.
an of the 14 only 4 worked sort of.
Frank P.
regulatorium... is that a Frankstonism?
Steven C.
Dean, fair point
Sara W.
you betcha
Dean L.
ooh, Steven C, a mild pun
Micah S.
but ratemycop.com is back up
Brad T.
as is wikileaks.
Brad T.
We worked on that o ne.
JoePlotkin
thanks Brad
Tree S.
yes, as is twitter.com/gapingroid
Micah S.
Rock on EFF. Remember, must renew my membership.
Brett G.
See Chomsky's "Manufacturing Consent/Content"
JoePlotkin
I meant thanks EFF
Dean L.
Brad, any thought to offering classes, a la EFF U?
shep
has left the room
Mike W.
has left the room
Brad T.
We are doing a classroom curriculum on copyright.
Brad T.
Future Shock is so 1970s
Brett G.
An advocacy group shouldn't be expected to do unbiased "classes," though.
Tree S.
why can i see the cover in my mind's eye? that horrible cover.
Danny O.
has entered the room
Brett G.
I'd be concerned that the view of copyright presented in an EFF class might be colored by its advocacy positions.
Apr 1
4:50 PM
Danny O.
Dean - that's a really good idea
Steven C.
Tree, didn't it come in different colors? was it the first book to do that?
Dean L.
:-)
Danny O.
what would you want EFF U to include?
Tree S.
student is just another word for prisoner anyway
Dean L.
let's talk about that in 11 mins
Brett G.
SciAm has a great article this month about how to avoid the Prisoners' Dilemma and says something siumilar
Brett G.
Worth a read
Tree S.
create a climate of fear stat
Brett G.
Starting with Thomas Paine, Ben Franklin, etc.
Jim R.
Common Sense T. Paine
Jim R.
Used the internet of the time printing press
alex g.
there was a campaign against underground press in the 1960s http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%’Ķ
David I.
IMPORTANT: for people with confirmed reservations to Bas Boorsma's demo, please meet Bas in the lobby right at 5:05 PM sharp
Joshua A.
has left the room
Apr 1
4:55 PM
Brett G.
FCC Commissioner Copps claims that media consolidation leads to an increase in salacious content - see http://flowtv.org/?p=557
Micah S.
isn't that a Leonard Cohen lyric?
Micah S.
View paste 
Everybody knows that the dice are loaded
Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed
Everybody knows that the war is over
Everybody knows the good guys lost
Everybody knows the fight was fixed
The poor stay poor, the rich get rich
Thats how it goes
Everybody knows
Brett G.
Everybody knows the boat is leaking; everybody knows the captain lied; everybody's got this broken feeling like their father or their dog just died
Apr 1
5:00 PM
Micah S.
Dean L.
No, according to Copps, it is a Neil Young lyric. everybody knows this is nowhere
Russ N.
Has Iz taken flight?
judi
no. she's here
Jim R.
good night chet, good night david.
Tree S.
everybody knows that baby's got new clothes
Brett G.
(Sings:) "Goodnight, Irene, goodnight Irene...."
Brett G.
The root of the problem?
Brett G.
Or "The root IS the problem?"
Jon L.
Heath R.
has left the room
Michael W.
View paste 
pop-up politicians!
alex g.
sunlightfoundation.com
Tree S.
is that louie theroux behind her?
Apr 1
5:05 PM
alex g.
Apr 1
5:05 PM
Doc S.
Doc S.
The speakers were terribly dressed.
Tree S.
thanks judi
Dean L.
judi -- how do we save this?
alex g.
has left the room
Doc S.
by all
Doc S.
bye, I meant.
Tony A.
has left the room
Doc S.
anybody have a CF card reader? I need to give David my pix.
Doc S.
I;m front right.
Russ N.
Jon L.
Dean, in Campfire I think it just stays.
Drew C.
has left the room
Tree S.
tip of the yid lid to the klezmer vibe
Russ N.
Doc S: "glass roots"??? BOO HISS
Brad T.
has left the room
Danny O.
has left the room
Tree S.
well, that's it for the feed here.
Apr 1
5:10 PM
Ellen M.
has left the room
Tree S.
jon, looking at the interview. thanks.
Angela S.
has left the room
Steven C.
has left the room
Apr 1
5:15 PM
Jon L.
You're welcome!
Brett G.
has left the room
Jim R.
has left the room
Aleecia M.
has left the room
Tree S.
has left the room
John B.
has left the room
JoePlotkin
has left the room
Michael B.
has left the room
Frank P.
has left the room
Suw C.
has left the room
Michael W.
has left the room
Sara W.
has left the room
Micah S.
has left the room
Paul H.
has left the room
Apr 1
5:20 PM
Dean L.
has left the room
David I.
has left the room
Dave W.
has left the room
Francois L.
has left the room
stage
has left the room
Doc S.
has left the room
FACO
has left the room
judi
has left the room
broadcast
has left the room
Apr 1
6:35 PM
Stig H.
has entered the room
Apr 1
6:40 PM
Stig H.
has left the room
Stig H.
has entered the room
Apr 1
6:50 PM
Stig H.
has left the room
Apr 1
10:45 PM
Jon L.
has left the room
Apr 1
10:55 PM
Russ N.
has left the room
Apr 1
11:05 PM
Francois L.
has entered the room
Apr 1
11:20 PM
Francois L.
has left the room
 

F2C Day 2

People in this transcript

  • Aaron W. Smith
  • Adam
  • Adam Marcus
  • AKMA
  • Aldon Hynes
  • Aleecia M. McDonald
  • alex goldman isp-planet
  • alex isp planet
  • Angela Siefer
  • Brad Templeton
  • Brett Glass
  • broadcast
  • Casey L.
  • Chris Meyer
  • Chris Riley
  • Chris Soghoian
  • Danny O'Brien
  • Darcy Gerbarg
  • Dave W
  • David Blumenstein
  • David Isenberg
  • Dean Landsman
  • Dirk
  • Doc Searls
  • Drew Clark
  • Ellen M
  • FACO
  • Francois Lefebvre
  • Frank P
  • Glenn Strachan
  • Harold F
  • Heath Row
  • Iz Walcott Hilborn
  • Izumi Aizu
  • Jim Roberts
  • JoePlotkin
  • John B
  • John St. Julien
  • Jon Lebkowsky
  • Joshua Auerbach
  • judi
  • Katy S.
  • Mary Beth H.
  • Matt Turk
  • Micah Sifry
  • Michael Birnbaum
  • Michael Wiik
  • Mike W.
  • Nicholas Givotovsky
  • Paul Brigner
  • Paul Hyland
  • Robert Cannon
  • Ron Sege
  • Russ Nelson
  • Sara C Wedeman
  • Sascha Meinrath
  • Sean Donelan
  • shep
  • stage
  • Steven Cherry
  • Stig Hammond
  • Suw Charman-Anderson
  • Tom Mandel
  • Tony Aiuto
  • Tree Shapiro
  • Turk