F2C Day 2 ’Äî Tuesday, April 1

Apr 1
5:00 AM
judi
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judi
turned on guest access
Apr 1
6:30 AM
judi
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Apr 1
7:15 AM
judi
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Apr 1
7:30 AM
broadcast
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Apr 1
7:40 AM
judi
View paste
Quicktime broadcast:
  rtsp://harmony.law.harvard.edu/f2c.sdp
Guest access to the chat:
  https://f2c08.campfirenow.com/e41c1
Apr 1
7:50 AM
stage
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Apr 1
8:15 AM
Heath R.
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Apr 1
8:30 AM
Turk
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AKMA
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Michael W.
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AKMA
Heath, are you in DC? I'm assuming not, but if you're here I want to say Hi
AKMA
s/DC/Silver Spring
Apr 1
8:35 AM
judi
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Quicktime broadcast:
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Guest access to the chat:
  https://f2c08.campfirenow.com/e41c1
Jim R.
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Heath R.
I am in DC, AKMA. Would love to hang out at some point. Will look for you during the break!
Iz W.
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Glenn S.
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Aaron W.
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AKMA
Will check in, have to leave at midday
Adam
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Apr 1
8:40 AM
Iz W.
Bruce is brilliant
Iz W.
Jim R.
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Jim R.
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Jim R.
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Jim R.
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Micah S.
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Apr 1
8:45 AM
Micah S.
I feel more secure already
Izumi A.
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Chris M.
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Michael W.
Jim R.
where would we be without F5
Aleecia M.
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judi
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Quicktime broadcast:
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Guest access to the chat:
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Apr 1
8:50 AM
Katy S.
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Apr 1
8:50 AM
Mary B.
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Brad T.
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Steven C.
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Michael B.
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Dave W.
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Chris R.
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Brett G.
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Brad T.
Nothing, and everything
Aleecia M.
That's one of the best intros I've ever heard
Brett G.
A thousand points of light?
Brad T.
Brett G.
Man is born good, but...
Brad T.
Are they a minority in the house, now?
Iz W.
Is there a minority in the house?
Brett G.
The Internet is the most human thing in the world, because it was entirely designed by humans. Which is obviously both good and bad....
Brett G.
Not to mention the Numa Numa dance.
Apr 1
8:55 AM
Mary B.
Contrary to yesterday's comment Portland's Community Fiber Net is very much alive! The WiFi project is facing some challenges but the PDX CFN has unanimous City Council support! Fiber Up!
Brett G.
View paste
Cowboy up
Cowboy down
Brett G.
Cowboy sideways
Iz W.
go mary beth! way to stick up for your fiber!
Paul B.
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Dean L.
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Dean L.
hello all
Brett G.
Privacy is necessary for democracy due to bad actors. If you assume everyone is good, you can claim there is no need for privacy
AKMA
Hi, Dean
David I.
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Apr 1
9:00 AM
Brad T.
No Brett, it requires more than good, it requires sainthood
Apr 1
9:00 AM
Chris M.
Brett, he just pointed out that people nonetheless want privacy (compensation example--safety doesn't require that you disclose your comp)
judi
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Quicktime broadcast:
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Brad T.
"Honey, why did you vote differently from me?" You're innocent, but you have something to hide.
AKMA
This "human nature" and "sainthood" topic brings the discourse to my turf
Brett G.
Innocent? Depends on whom you voted for. ;-)
Brad T.
I don't want to see my doctor nude
AKMA
You don't have my PCP
Brad T.
You selling angel dust?
Brad T.
(Yes, I know it means primary care physician)
Tony A.
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AKMA
Saints, goodness, and now angels -- who knew F2C would be so theological
Brett G.
Daemons
Adam
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David I.
What he said about interrogation rooms: http://isen.com/blog/2008/02/24000-torture’Ķ
Tom M.
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Apr 1
9:05 AM
Chris S.
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Tom M.
Hi y'all.
Brett G.
(Picks up gun) Hello? Hello? [POW]
judi
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Quicktime broadcast:
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Tom M.
policy not equal to any formula.
FACO
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JoePlotkin
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Tom M.
The objections to *writing* itself were of the same sort as to subsequent subsequent innovations.
AKMA
Education is another area where technological disruption is having/will have even greater disruptive effects (if we let it)
Brad T.
Look where writing has gotten us.
Apr 1
9:10 AM
Tom M.
don't you mean *read* where writing has gotten us?
Brett G.
Where are we?
Chris S.
some rights are more equal than other rights
Chris S.
Bruce is calling for an end to the war on drugs?
Dean L.
the rise of the digital grandma (that scallywag!)
AKMA
Seat belt laws, motorcycle helmets
David I.
Chris ending it would be a GOOD IDEA!!!
David I.
Phasers on stun, folks!
Brett G.
Would Bruce want his books to be copied for free?
David I.
Brett, I hope you ask this in Q&A
AKMA
You may have free PDFs of my books, Brett; I write to be read, not to be paid
Chris R.
Some rights, in combination, make a wrong.
Michael W.
View paste
I like this quote:

"It is becoming unprecedentedly difficult for anyone, anyone at all, 
to keep a secret. In the age of the leak and the blog, of evidence 
extraction and link discovery, truths will either out or be outed, 
later if not sooner. This is something I would bring to the attention
 of every diplomat, politician and corporate leader: the future, 
 eventually, will find you out. The future... will have its way with 
 you. In the end, you will be seen to have done that which you did."
  -- William Gibson
Apr 1
9:15 AM
Chris S.
Chris S.
looks like a warez site though
Brett G.
E-bookie?
Brad T.
The EFF's lawyers are very nice people.
Dean L.
Braad . . . ya think?
Chris S.
Yo Bruce, I see no mention of free digital copies of your books on your own website (http://www.schneier.com/books.html) - can you provide us a URL?
Dean L.
that second a was for attorney
Brad T.
I blame Microsoft
Brett G.
They've got too many political parties to fit on one spreadsheet?
shep
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Apr 1
9:20 AM
Paul H.
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Brett G.
Uh-oh. Watch out for those bloggers.
Brad T.
It was a British Isles NGO. (And BINGO was its name-o)
Brad T.
In Europe, the government has to know everything about you so it can protect your privacy.
Joshua A.
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Brad T.
Never piss off a group of under-employed bloggers.
Dean L.
what!!! an underemployed blogger?
Jim R.
dean anyone that has time to blog
Jim R.
is an underemployed blogger
Dean L.
++JR
Apr 1
9:25 AM
Steven C.
Dean, there's always the flip-side.... overworked bloggers (i.e., everyone whose job includes blogging) blogs at work)
Dean L.
that would be an overemployed blogger
Micah S.
Brad T.
See, technology can turn everything upside-down!
Chris S.
sounds like the UK needs opensecrets.org and http://www.washingtonwatch.com
Brad T.
He's not our regular drummer
David I.
careful, Howard Levy's son is a drummer!
FACO
has left the room
David I.
Miles Levy might even sit in this afternoon . . .
AKMA
If he's not writing Linux drivers
David I.
Ha Ha!
Brad T.
Not another anti-DRM, linux device driver writing pop band drummer.
Tom M.
jazz and blues, brad; jazz andblues.
David I.
Miles can juggle knives too . . .
Brad T.
Java and bluetooth you mean.
David I.
while drumming and writing Linux drivers
Tom M.
anyone can do that -- as long as you aren't afraid of blood...
AKMA
"Waggy finger orgainzation" -- will remember that one
JoePlotkin
usually drummers prefer limo drivers
David I.
You belong to one akma
Brad T.
Volume, volume, volume.
Apr 1
9:30 AM
AKMA
Not when I preach
Tom M.
are your sermons on youtube, akma?
Brad T.
I am Sew of ORG, you shall be assimilated
AKMA
None on YouTube, a few mp3s out there
Brad T.
Ha
Chris S.
Isn't China's position on human rights a joke?
Tom M.
"a major u. in the uk" -- would that be cambridge or oxford?
Chris S.
AKMA, thats you, right?
Brad T.
My father can beat your father at dominos.
AKMA
That is I
Steven C.
yes Tom, the waggy finger universities
Chris S.
he wrote a keylogger.
AKMA
Saints, angels, goodness, priests
AKMA
preaching, waggy fingers
Dirk
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Tom M.
Perhaps G-d is a terminate and stay resident process (just a thought).
Brad T.
And now, one by one, the stars are going out.
Aleecia M.
Christ will fg again?
Apr 1
9:35 AM
Dirk
View paste
British Telecom's Secret Phorm Trial
Tracked 18,000 users and forgot to tell them all....
08:43AM Tuesday Apr 01 2008 by Karl
In the States, providers like Wide Open West have started using
behavioral advertising tracking technology from NebuAD, and the 
only way users would have known is if they checked the FAQ or TOS. 
UK telco British Telecom took things one step further by testing 
UK behavioral ad system Phorm on 18,000 users without telling 
anyone.
David I.
Dirk ++
David I.
Please ask about this!
Tom M.
an Arthur C. Clarke reference sneaks in -- he, certainly, was a TSR process.
Brad T.
You mean they all had keyloggers?
Dirk
AKMA
Tenor a month; they always neglect us basses
Chris S.
Does Bruce have any say in this? He's the CTO of BT's managed security firm, not the BT mothership
Brett G.
I did a keylogger for the IBM PC in something like 1984. In aseembler. It was a way to recover what I had written if the machine crashed.
Dirk
Even during the early phase of the BT/Phorm deal that the technical report describes, the pair were preparing to spin the technology to the public. "121Media [Phorm] will take action (both technical and public relations) to avoid any perception that their system is a virus, malware or spyware and to show that in effect it is a positive web development," BT wrote in the report.
Brad T.
Like Bird Flu
Brett G.
"Cluck flu?"
AKMA
Click flu
David I.
:-)
Brad T.
Keep strutting and fretting upon the stage, Danny.
Tony A.
Brett: Wouldn't it have been easier to write a TSR which autosaves your work periodically?
Brett G.
Shall I compare thee to...
Apr 1
9:40 AM
Tom M.
"The values of any culture are often expressed as human rights." Is that what D. said?
Chris S.
It's not waterboarding if it's done by Americans.
Glenn S.
View paste
Off the Subject but from Yesterday, this headline 
from today's press -Presidential Candidates Not Exciting Telecom 
Industry, Survey Shows Preliminary results from our survey of 
communications industry professionals suggest that neither Barack 
Obama, Hillary Clinton nor John McCain are conveying a compelling 
position on communications technology.
Brad T.
Turned out they only wanted to takedown copies of Terry Gilliam's "Brazil" from youtube.
Iz W.
no chris, waterboarding is not torture if done by americans.
Tony A.
Oh, it's still waterboarding. We are just trying to say it isn't torture. Repeat a lie long enough and some people believe it.
Chris S.
Tor is illegal in Brazil eh?
AKMA
View paste
This thou perceivest, which makes thy net more strong,
To love that Web which thou must leave ere long.
Brett G.
The key logger saved to a nonvolatile RAM card whose contents could later be saved to disk.
Joshua A.
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Tom M.
th' expense of spirit in a waste of shame is tcp/ip in action do i have thatright?
Jim R.
all you need is a dense population
Brett G.
But back then you used floppies and swapped them a lot, so you didn't want to just do a disk write.
Brad T.
Beebtube
Brett G.
Third party ISPs were hit even harder than BT.
Brett G.
They were paying twice to deliver the bits -- once for upstream and once to deliver them downstream.
Chris S.
BitTorrent with same-network favouritism would have solved the issues created by the BBC youtube.
Brett G.
Alas, it wouldn't have. It would have lowered the upstream charges but massively increased the local loop charges.
Apr 1
9:45 AM
Chris S.
Ok, well, yes.. but presumably, BT could/should have charged less for the local stuff.
Brett G.
It's the most expensive part of their network.
Brad T.
Why don't they all just ask their cable company to get the BBC America channel?
Chris S.
oink.cd (and it's replacement, waffle.fm) are closed networks, and they're pretty amazing.
shep
Brad T.
Protecting you from the Golden Shower of foreign data
Brett G.
The Great Firewall of China is not an impenetrable wall. It's a crumbly wall that drops stones on you at random.
Iz W.
probably whyville
Chris S.
Like the lead paint on our toys. It flakes with a tiny bit of prodding.
Brad T.
Great wall: Failing to repel mongol hordes for 2 thousand years
Brad T.
So we should be able to buy pollution trading credits for privacy leaks.
Brett G.
Toxic waste
Tony A.
We're afraid to throw our data away AND afraid to keep it.
Chris S.
Isn't it easier just to put an industry goon in charge of the EPA?
JoePlotkin
lets all recycle our bits
Apr 1
9:50 AM
Chris S.
Bruce needs a better lawyer.
Steven C.
Tony ++
Brett G.
This message printed with 100% recycled electrons.... No atoms were smashed during the making of this message
David I.
is "security theatre" an operative concept on line?
Brad T.
Cute, David
David I.
I associate it with TSA stuff and govt stuff, but how about on line?
Brad T.
I mean here we are talking about security in a theater with Bruce
Tony A.
Brett: Actually not. This transcript will live for years on some server. It cost real physical magnetic media.
Chris S.
Bruce - if you get offered Chertoff's job as head of DHS under Obama, will you take it?
David I.
Phorm
Brett G.
What you mean to say is that you spent physical media on it.
Brett G.
You could have chosen not to.
David I.
Bruece for Homeland Security Czar!
Brad T.
Back to the ministry of information
Chris S.
Security Theatre 2.0 (now enhanced by TwoFish)
Brad T.
It's like if the NSA ran GMail
Brad T.
Without telling you
David I.
Bruce, you don't HAVE to serch on google
Brett G.
[Imitates Alfred Hithcock:] Gooooooodevening.
Adam
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David I.
you don't HAVE to use Gmail
Brett G.
The googleplex
Brad T.
Goopologists
Chris S.
That is, unless your university adopts gmail/google apps.
Iz W.
Tony, actually we are not allowed to throw it away.
Chris S.
What if I cover my data with peanut butter?
JoePlotkin
somehow Orwellian doesnt seem severe enuf adjective
Aleecia M.
And you don't have to do rural farming?
Brad T.
Depends on the dog.
David I.
so it is different than a quasi-monopoly infrastructure provider
Adam
and project canoe seems to be doing the same thing for cable -- clickstream monitoring in the set-top box
Brad T.
The dog has a live webcam
shep
It's like the dog taking a photo of you naked.
Brad T.
But that means the internet knows he's a dog
Brett G.
On the Internet, you wouldn't know he was a dog without the Webcam
Jim R.
so that why the dog was rolling over and laughing.
Iz W.
hi gerry!
Apr 1
9:55 AM
Steven C.
think how efficient it would be if the U.S. head of DHS and the UK Minister of Security were one and the same person
Brett G.
I want a bloggie bag
Chris S.
What is Orbitz's policy w/regard to passenger's meal choices. Can the FBI come to you and ask for every passenger who has requested a muslim friendly meal?
Brad T.
The wreck of the Data Valdez
Brett G.
All those poor seabirds coated in toxic data
Drew C.
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Iz W.
too bad we don't have flickr pictures of george bush in his fraternity days
Dean L.
does one have to pick up after one's cyberdogs?
Tom M.
cyberpoop?
Brett G.
Moore's (or is it More's) Law
Chris S.
Companies have to pay for backup tapes that they can later misplace
Adam
so how do we get the Internet to learn to forget? And what bits.
Drew C.
Google: On the Internet, no one know that you are a naked dog.
Brad T.
And then in the future, the AIs can go back and examine it.
Iz W.
I gotta get me some kibbles and bits
David I.
Saving it is one thing, retrieving it is another
Brad T.
However, I, for one, welcome our new robot overlords.
Dean L.
so this is whatthe NSA means by "grooming"
David I.
If it is on tape, who's gonna search it?
Brett G.
Fortunately, most people are very bad at writing search terms.
judi
so web 3.0 / semantic web will make a whole new story out of this marginal value data
Chris S.
And yet you were somehow told even though you didn't have a data breach law.
Brett G.
Maybe the best solution is to let it pile up in such a huge mountain that it's impractical to search (sorry, Google)
Brad T.
I lost 2 CDs with the Beatles White Album on them .
Chris S.
We had to wait for a law in California to be told about Choicepoint's gigantic screwup
AKMA
Brad: Talk about valuable data!
Brad T.
Time for another letter, apologizing for the not delivered letter.
Chris S.
can data breach letters result in an endless loop?
JoePlotkin
data leaking=pee2pee?
David I.
I've had to replace my credit card twice in the last year thx to fraudulent transactions
Dirk
The Dutch 'IRS' recently lost 800,000 tax returns...
Brett G.
Actually, the BIG problem is that you can get so much of it about one person with a single number.
Steven C.
NYNEX once sent all its customers their PINs on postcards
Apr 1
10:00 AM
Brett G.
It's the indexing of it that can be dangerous.
AKMA
Joe: data security as digital prostate problem?
Brett G.
Most people's mortgages, deeds, etc. are at the County Courthouse, but it's when a data collection firm comes in and ties it to your SSN that there's a risk
judi
semantic web!
Chris S.
The copyright holders need a version of Mary Bono-Mack if they want to beat the pesky activists.
David I.
Speaking: Nick Givertovsky (sp?)
Brett G.
We can melt it down and use it over again
Apr 1
10:05 AM
Dean L.
do fundamentalists have the market on fundamental rights?
Brett G.
"Bought and Sold " -- Dar Williams
Chris S.
Homer Simpson sold his soul for a doughnut. We sell our data privacy rights for access to google's fantastic webmail interface.
AKMA
AKMA
JoePlotkin
chris s ++
Turk
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Chris S.
Didn't the US opt out of that once the president decided he could do whatever he wanted?
Michael W.
Chris S.
Gigi++
FACO
has entered the room
Dean L.
time traveling super robots from teh future -- been there, done that
Chris S.
Just as we've used DNA collected 30 years ago to investigate old crimes
Chris S.
The data of today is the problem of tomorrow
AKMA
Saints, angels, preaching, goodness, priests, and sin
Brett G.
Brett G.
A "sell by" date?
Chris S.
Bruce - throw a bone to the bloggers. Head of DHS under Obama?
AKMA
Jorge Luis Broges, "Funes the Memorious"
Tom M.
yup...
Brad T.
I saw a paper of that, can't remember where.
Brett G.
The heat death of society?
Apr 1
10:10 AM
Brett G.
Lethe
Jim R.
drowning in our own fecal data.
Tom M.
the mind of a mnemonist -- luria
David I.
Plus there's a cultural thing in the US -- ride west three days and start over . . .
Micah S.
we're going to have to forget what we put on our Facebook pages at age 18
Tom M.
you're not *that* young, micah
Brad T.
I made Kathryn pledge never to search my old USENET posts.
Chris S.
The tweens still went nuts in response to Facebook's news feeds.
JoePlotkin
im glad there was no facebook when i was 18
Jim R.
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Micah S.
speaking in the royal "we" Tom
David I.
me too, Joe :-)
Tom M.
:)
Steven C.
I wrote about this at the very end of a profile of Gordon Bell's MyLifeBits project http://spectrum.ieee.org/print/2153
Dean L.
Micah -- only the Brits can speak in that royal sense
Brad T.
How about for what I do while I'm old and foolish?
Brett G.
I had a competitor who posted accounts of drinking binges on Facebook.... Prospective clients found them. Oops!
Micah S.
i was so much older than, I'm much much younger now
Chris S.
What about Youthful Indiscretions when you're 40 years old?
David I.
danah boyd++++++
AKMA
"society of permanent teenagers" -- another good one from Suw
shep
Micah S.
have you watched what adults wear these days when they fly somewhere? sweatpants? it is a society of permanent teenagers
Steven C.
referring to Frank Nack: "Forgetting makes our life bearable," Nack wrote, "and is closely related to cultural concepts, such as forgiveness and absolution. I wonder if removing this human imperfection, namely to forget, would do more harm than good."
Russ N.
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Russ N.
morning, all. Hi, Bruce! Hi, Suw!
Mary B.
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Tony A.
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Apr 1
10:15 AM
Mike W.
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Russ N.
Oh, doh, you're on break and all out in the lobby.
judi
Hi Russ
judi
Not everyone.
Apr 1
10:25 AM
AKMA
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Michael W.
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Iz W.
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Micah S.
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Aleecia M.
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Brad T.
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Steven C.
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Michael B.
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Brett G.
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Tom M.
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Chris S.
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JoePlotkin
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Dirk
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Adam
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Mike W.
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Apr 1
10:30 AM
Chris M.
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Paul H.
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Heath R.
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Apr 1
10:40 AM
Drew C.
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FACO
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Steven C.
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Apr 1
10:45 AM
Chris S.
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Apr 1
10:50 AM
FACO
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Mike W.
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Tony A.
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Brad T.
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JoePlotkin
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Heath R.
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Aleecia M.
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Micah S.
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Glenn S.
I thought that this was a conference on Harmonica playing...and this guy is doing a great job!!
Tom M.
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Michael B.
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Michael W.
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Iz W.
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Apr 1
10:55 AM
Chris M.
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Apr 1
10:55 AM
Dirk
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Harold F.
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Tony A.
Can we find the music on plastic or the net?
Paul H.
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judi
for those who are here, you can find it on stage in front of the musicians
Tom M.
Paul H.
Iz W.
I need to make a quick announcement as well -- social media club of DC (it's a nationwide organization) did F2C a favor and promoted us on their blog and in their newsletter. So we promised to let all of you know about them, and also the upcoming BlogPotomac conference. Join us for BlogPotomac, Washington DC's premiere social media marketing event on June 13, 2008 (http://www.blogpotomac.com).
Harold F.
You guys do GREAT work!!!!
Jim R.
has entered the room
Chris S.
Will anyone be going to Washington Dulles Airport later, and has a free (as in beer) spot in their taxi/car? (email csoghoian@gmail.com) if you do.
Mike W.
Pew has your number....
Paul H.
BlogPotomac looks good, I may go myself.
shep
Telephone surveys annoy me when they make my phone ring.
Brad T.
The guys I always hang up on. Digit dial surveys only get people who use phones, answer them and talk to survey takers.
AKMA
has entered the room
Iz W.
shep I think these are online surveys
judi
View paste
Quicktime broadcast:
  rtsp://harmony.law.harvard.edu/f2c.sdp
Guest access to the chat:
  https://f2c08.campfirenow.com/e41c1
Nicholas G.
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alex i.
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Frank P.
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Angela S.
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Mary B.
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Mike W.
hmm, don't you think the FCC could... oh never mind.
Apr 1
11:00 AM
Mike W.
people are just so clever!
Harold F.
Laugh while you can, code monkey, but actually measuring this stuff is real useful in policy land.
JoePlotkin
"its a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St Hubbins
alex i.
and some people want to make sure it's measured wrong. . .
Brett G.
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Harold F.
Alex, sad but true.
Tony A.
We'll keep counting the votes until the numbers come out right!
Brett G.
So should we have a "clever" network, then?
Harold F.
But PEW jas a good rep and is transparent in their methodology/
Brett G.
"Code monkey get up, get coffee...." - J. Coulton
alex i.
which is good
alex i.
also pew releases data for free
alex i.
pew releases data for free
Aleecia M.
Micah S.
i want to know how this varies by geography...
Apr 1
11:05 AM
Harold F.
They use chat rooms during conferences . . . .
John S.
has entered the room
Brett G.
Livin' La Vida broadban....
Mike W.
Pew consistently proves that Internet users do things and use things that the telecom oligarchs tell us are impossible, unlikely, or not significant
Brett G.
(ooops, "broadband")
Aleecia M.
Micah S.
couple of folks here from the midwest were describing how this level of co-creation is not as prevalent there
Darcy G.
has entered the room
alex i.
Mike W.
Micah, poor quality deployment and access is a major problem in the MW
Russ N.
hrm. the midwest had a higher penetration of telephones 120 years ago than did NYC
Brett G.
The norms are different in that region. Less playful.
judi
hey, some peoples' vcrs have been blinking 12:00 for years.
Frank P.
Iz W.
judi - even some of the people in this room
Brett G.
We have some users whom we call "midnight flashers." These are the people whose VCRs are always blinking midnight because they can't set them....
Mike W.
People in the Midwest 'less playful'? You must be kidding. Humor is mined as a natural resource in the Midwest.
Brett G.
In my experience, in the midwest, there are stricter rules for play.
Frank P.
Brett: VCRs???
Brad T.
How can I get my VCR to flash "1:00" during daylight time?
Iz W.
In fact I am from Milwaukee.
Dirk
Brett G.
Yes, VCRs. Not everyone has a Tivo.
Micah S.
Mary Godwin, who is here, was telling me how her high school students in MN were way behind the curve, compared to middle school kids in NY
Mike W.
But wait John, AT&T told us telemedicine is impossible unless we give them 'regulatory relief' (a legislative enema?)
Frank P.
VCR = 8 inch floppy
alex i.
alex i.
View paste


Why We Don't Know Enough About Broadband in the U.S.

11/14/2007 | Memo  | John Horrigan 
Mary B.
...WHere
Iz W.
HEckle!!!!!!
Brad T.
Made you look
Apr 1
11:10 AM
Russ N.
FrankP: DVD = 5 inch floppy
alex i.
iz b hecklebot?
Mike W.
aw Drew... compliments will get you everywhere
Russ N.
HD-DVD = 3.5" floppy
Brad T.
Tivo == 3.5" floppy
Tom M.
CD=CD
Mary B.
Where the women are strong ..the men are good looking and all the children are above average... That's Lake Wobegan MN
Brett G.
Maw, we have to go to participate in the census.... Hope there is room at the inn.
alex i.
most bband data excludes: work and universities and govt
Mike W.
No room here, but you can go sleep in the manger, Brett
David I.
has entered the room
Brett G.
On the Internet, no one knows that you're the dog in the manger.
Nicholas G.
has left the room
Russ N.
alex i.: I know a number of people who surf at work because home is slow.
Angela S.
As do I.
Harold F.
We've gone from government outsourcing critical functions to citizens outsourcing it for the government.
Suw C.
has entered the room
Brett G.
The danger of allowing comments is that providers can trash one another.
Harold F.
I'm so happy.
JoePlotkin
um, isnt this similar to dslreports.com
Mike W.
check
Brett G.
Hotel owners already do that on the hotel review sites.
Harold F.
I expect Drew will cover verification. Right Drew?
Mike W.
and you can just click on an ad to get service... not
David I.
this is a GREAT use of crowd-sourcing! Please, everybody, participate. The benefits of your participation will accrue to all, and lead to increasing returns.
David I.
Farold, do you actually think bb census will be spoofed or hacked?
Brett G.
When someone looks up broadband in my area, can I get placement in that right hand column so folks know that there isn't just a duopoly?
David I.
Harold . . . sorry
Angela S.
Their data only comes from folks entering it? About their address? On their own?
Harold F.
Actually, there is an excellent use here of identifying the random houses on a block that are just a smidge to far from the central office or at the wrong end of the cul de sac.
Apr 1
11:15 AM
Chris S.
Is price discrimination a good or bad thing for Internet? I pay less for my DSL than my neighbors, simply because I knew to ask for AT&T super secret naked DSL service.
Harold F.
David: if this becomes a useful and reliable source, expect industry actors to try to manipulate it.
Chris S.
In some way, the folks next door paying $60 per month keep my prices lower.
Suw C.
this will be useful when my husband and I are deciding where to live in the US.
Katy S.
there is a thumb drive at the registration desk (lost and found)
Harold F.
Chris: you got a merger condition benefit. your neighbors are irrelevant.
Chris S.
Price discrimination in the airline industry is something I am ok with. Well, at least as long as I'm a student and getting cheap tickets.
Russ N.
ST. Lawrence County is running a broadband census right now.
David I.
good pt harold
Russ N.
Brad T.
Naked DSL was cheaper? In most places it's more expensive.
Brett G.
Chris: And willing to cram yourself into a seat the size of a shoe box.
Chris S.
Harold: The merger specified that they offer naked DSL, not the price
Brad T.
Site refuses to take my entry.
Chris S.
http://www.cnet.com/8301-13739_1-9822662-46.html (Naked DSL from AT&T) - I pay $28 per month for 3Mbits, with no taxes at all.
Dean L.
naked DSL costs more because it creates a billing event -- and what could be more opportune than (drum roll) yet another billing event for a telco?!
Harold F.
No, the AT&T/BS merger did specify price, because when they had naked DSL as a condition in the previous merger, AT&T set the price as only $1 less then bundled.
Chris S.
Before, I had to pay $27, plus a barebones phoneline, and a bunch of taxes.
Tom M.
i took the test and got 1.8mb/sec down
Chris S.
By the time the bill came, I was paying $45 per month. Naked DSL is a big savings
Brett G.
Naked DSL is becoming more palatable to the Bells because as people switch to cell phones, they have excess copper plant
Brad T.
I click "continue" and it just shows the same page
Brett G.
On Qwest, naked DSL cost MORE than DSL on a measured rate line
Dean L.
as a suburban NY Metro Verizon customer, Naked DL would cost me about $60 more per month
Joshua A.
has entered the room
Brett G.
All the cable and telephone companies want to bundle you
Brett G.
...with a long contract that locks you in
alex i.
I use Speakeasy (--Covad -- VZ) but it's not cheap
Joshua A.
to Joe's comment, it would be good to merge this with data from DSLreports
Chris S.
Right, so the point is, that AT&T finally has reasonably priced DSL.. and they do their best to keep it secret.
Apr 1
11:20 AM
Chris S.
DSLreports.com is by far the best source for info..including pricing information.
JoePlotkin
wholesale rate for entire loop (naked) is higher than high freq portion (line shared)
Suw C.
this data would be great as a map mash-up
David I.
suw +++
Chris S.
Suw: It looks like the data is CC licensed.
JoePlotkin
Drew should partner with dslr - they dont have his more formal methodology
alex i.
drewclark.com (h/t f. paynter)
Frank P.
Harold F.
There is a strong economic incentive to drive users to bundled services. I discuss this ad naseum here: http://www.wetmachine.com/totsf/item/1050
alex i.
mark on PBS ++++
Brett G.
Straddling the Beltway?
Mike W.
I also use speakeasy, but they are not listed as a provider on the web site
Joshua A.
i wonder if improvements to speed testing methodology will make the historical data less useful
JoePlotkin
we offer naked DSL thru Covad
Brett G.
Stealing music is one of the best successes of the Internet.
Brett G.
It's just so easy and effective.
Tony A.
There doesn't seem to be a way (on the census) to tell the system that you know of other providers in your area.
Dean L.
a rapacious oligopoly - now there's a term!
Chris S.
And now the industry has gotten into bed with Steve Jobs, who they fear as much as WalMart.
Joshua A.
"outrageous prices" -- except that the record labels actually weren't and aren't making much money
Heath R.
I went to grade school with A. Rapacious Oligopoly.
Brad T.
How much rent do you charge for your basement?
Dean L.
unsigned artist = artist not getting ^@&#*@ed by the record companies of yore
Joshua A.
"oligopoly" -- except that there are more record labels than you can count
alex i.
garageband.com, songza.com
Brett G.
I am an unsigned artist and the albums on which I've performed seem to be more pirated than bought.
Chris S.
Where does Trent Reznor's multi-million $$ label-less online deal fit in?
Apr 1
11:25 AM
Chris S.
Brett: Sell t-shirts
JoePlotkin
Mark is dead on - may the record label rest in peace
Brett G.
We don't have distribution and so the easiest way to get them is P2P
Chris S.