Tuesday, April 1 ’Üí
| Mar 31 | 12:05 AM |
| Francois L. | has entered the room |
| Francois L. | has left the room |
| Francois L. | has entered the room |
| Francois L. | has left the room |
| Mar 31 | 7:00 AM |
| Bill S. | has entered the room |
| Mar 31 | 7:30 AM |
| judi | has entered the room |
| judi | Good morning Bill |
| Mar 31 | 7:35 AM |
| Nicholas G. | has entered the room |
| Nicholas G. | good morning Judi - |
| Nicholas G. | this works well enough |
| judi | Hi Nicholas. The chat works well enough? |
| judi | have you checked out the QT broadcast yet? |
| Nicholas G. | it does - testing - |
| Nicholas G. | still twiddling with it - |
| judi | I just started a test broadcast (setting up) |
| Mar 31 | 7:40 AM |
| Nicholas G. | so far I'm just getting a a "not found" message |
| Nicholas G. | but I am on a dubious hotel connection BTGW |
| Nicholas G. | BTW |
| judi | oops, my fault. sorry. try now |
| Nicholas G. | streaming in sans hitch - |
| Nicholas G. | thanks Judi |
| Nicholas G. | NRG |
| judi | thx! |
| Mar 31 | 7:55 AM |
| Nicholas G. | has left the room |
| Matt T. | has entered the room |
| Mar 31 | 8:00 AM |
| Matt T. | Hello all! |
| broadcast | has entered the room |
| Mar 31 | 8:05 AM |
| Brough T. | has entered the room |
| broadcast | open from Quicktime, FILE -> Open URL: stream: rtsp://harmony.law.harvard.edu/f2c.sdp |
| Mar 31 | 8:10 AM |
| broadcast | Matt: please help David get the on-stage monitor working with chat? |
| Matt T. | ok, I will |
| broadcast | thx |
| stage | has entered the room |
| Mar 31 | 8:15 AM |
| matthew b. | has entered the room |
| Mar 31 | 8:20 AM |
| Aaron S. | has entered the room |
| Mar 31 | 8:25 AM |
| Michael W. | has entered the room |
| judi | video stream going offline temporarily, will be back in a moment |
| Mar 31 | 8:30 AM |
| Tony A. | has entered the room |
| Jim R. | has entered the room |
| Chris S. | has entered the room |
| Mar 31 | 8:35 AM |
| Aleecia M. | has entered the room |
| Chris R. | has entered the room |
| Suw C. | has entered the room |
| Gregory M. | has entered the room |
| stage | text size OK? |
| Aleecia M. | beautiful |
| Gregory M. | nicel done Howard & Chris |
| Mar 31 | 8:40 AM |
| Micah S. | has entered the room |
| Steven C. | has entered the room |
| Heath R. | has entered the room |
| Iz W. | has entered the room |
| Francois L. | has entered the room |
| Iz W. | judi's haircut is rockin' |
| Chris S. | Or comcast |
| Mar 31 | 8:45 AM |
| Matt T. | Video broadcast- rtsp://harmony.law.harvard.edu/f2c.sdp |
| Jim R. | has left the room |
| Jim R. | has entered the room |
| shep | has entered the room |
| alex i. | has entered the room |
| Brett G. | has entered the room |
| Brett G. | G'mornin'! (Stretching) |
| Chris M. | has entered the room |
| Mar 31 | 8:50 AM |
| Brett G. | AT&T = Slime mold |
| Ron S. | has entered the room |
| Brett G. | (Divided to get past an obstacle) |
| Brett G. | (The obstacle being regulation) |
| alex i. | I think there was a manifesto in here somewhere |
| Izumi A. | has entered the room |
| alex i. | neocons love monopolies, even hazlett |
| Micah S. | neo e-cons, nice term! |
| Brett G. | The "invisible hand" is very effective at delivering wedgies |
| Iz W. | cute brett |
| Ken D. | has entered the room |
| Steven C. | has left the room |
| alex i. | hi iz, you logging on from home? |
| Mar 31 | 8:55 AM |
| Ken D. | Brett, I think you owe an apology to slime mold everywhere. |
| Brett G. | Is there a fungus amongus? |
| shep | without any EDFAs? |
| Stig H. | has entered the room |
| Heath R. | Humongous fungus among us |
| Steven C. | has entered the room |
| Iz W. | alex I'm in the front row |
| Iz W. | 2nd front |
| Shawn C. | has entered the room |
| Brett G. | That's not the big problem. The problem is that it's hard to tap into that fiber. |
| Chris S. | Thankfully, you don't get searched by TSA to get online. |
| Greg E. | has entered the room |
| alex i. | pickles and ice cream |
| Brett G. | No, but CALEA means that you can always be pulled aside for a search. Only you won't know you'll being searched. |
| Brad T. | has entered the room |
| Ken D. | Alex, are you pregnant? |
| shep | ...
actually, the existence of The Net actually stimulates more travel then
there would otherwise be, because people get to know people who are
distant and then wind up traveling because they want to meet these
people face-to-face. F2C is an example of this. |
| alex i. | not me |
| Iz W. | alex :-) |
| Michael W. | I took the metro here |
| Mar 31 | 9:00 AM |
| Micah S. | "Benkler-style": not two words you often see used side-by-side |
| Mar 31 | 9:00 AM |
| FACO | has entered the room |
| alex i. | ken u still buidling rural MD networks? |
| Ken D. | No, designing ultra high speed wireless infrastructure equipment. |
| alex i. | Gbps! |
| Brett G. | The trick is getting the spectrum. |
| Ken D. | Not quite, 400Mbps/400Mbps down per node on a layer 2 switched network |
| Ken D. | er 400Mbps up./400Mbps down |
| Ken D. | aggregate |
| Brett G. | Possible, but only if you have about a gigahertz of spectrum and/or are allowed very high power levels. |
| matthew b. | |
| Iz W. | lovely music |
| Ken D. | That would suppose that one would need long links, we don't. |
| Ken D. | This is designed to deal with densely populated urban environments, think Bombay. |
| Sascha M. | has entered the room |
| Iz W. | "as the brain decays the music stays" - something to live by? |
| Matt T. | i hope |
| Mar 31 | 9:05 AM |
| Ken D. | Good, that would be one of the things I would hope to be able to continue to enjoy, just after loved ones. |
| Brett G. | Susan: You're denying my existence! |
| RJA | has entered the room |
| Ken D. | Alex, your namesake would say hello, if he could speak. |
| Ken D. | ;-) |
| Brett G. | We and other WISPs compete very gamely with cable companies and telcos. We don't do "buncles" and we don't have market power. |
| alex i. | :-) |
| Brett G. | There are between 4000 and 8000 small, independent ISPs |
| alex i. | we need antitrust that works |
| Paul B. | has entered the room |
| Brough T. | has left the room |
| Ken D. | The information I am seeing suggests that we are now below 2000 ISPs/WISPs |
| Ken D. | That 8,00 number is one of Marlon's assertions. |
| Brett G. | I'm helping people to start more! |
| Ken D. | Keep it up! |
| Sascha M. | i have the ISP numbers around here somewhere... |
| Brett G. | In any event, Internet service is not an oligopoly. However, if we regulate the little guys out of business, it WILL be. |
| alex i. | users = http://www.dslreports.com/ |
| Mary G. | has entered the room |
| Brett G. | I am not here. I do not exist. |
| Mar 31 | 9:10 AM |
| Sascha M. | and
the numbers are stunning. i'm working on a piece about the fall of us
broadband penetration ranking and the loss of isps -- the correlation
is eyeopening. |
| Brett G. | [POOF!] |
| Brett G. | <POOF!> |
| Ken D. | Brett, you are virtual? |
| Sascha M. | |
| alex i. | the numbers on subscribers are amazing too |
| Sascha M. | those are us census figures. |
| alex i. | especially VoIP subscribers -- now dominated by cable |
| Brett G. | I'm virtually astonished at the fact that Susan is looking almost right at me and denying that I exist. |
| alex i. | sascha, what's the source? |
| Ken D. | Seems like the numbers are dropping steadily. |
| Sascha M. | View paste
|
| Brett G. | If we do the wrong things, they COULD drop to zero. |
| Sascha M. | sources are the US census, OECD and ITU. |
| Brad T. | has left the room |
| Brett G. | Although I don't believe they've dropped as much as Sascha says above. We've gotten new competitors in town over those years. |
| Adam M. | has entered the room |
| Sascha M. | Brett:
well, could be that the US Census, OECD, and ITU have formed an
international conspiracy to overstate this data... it's their data, not
my own. |
| David I. | has entered the room |
| Iz W. | yeah brett, I dont think sascha made up those stats |
| Ken D. | Sascha, do I detect a note of sarcasm there? |
| Ken D. | I may need my sarcasometer calibrated. |
| alex i. | I
do think that most official stats ignore very small wireless networks,
< 500 subs, but the telcos aren't worried about them and can destroy
them by building out DSL and cable |
| Mar 31 | 9:15 AM |
| Brett G. | We
all know that the FCC has recently revised its data collection on
broadband providers because the collection methods came under fire; see
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/atta’Ķ |
| Ken D. | The FCC ignores wireless operator below 250 subs, if I recall correctly. |
| Ken D. | On the good side we now have the definition of broadband moved up to an increedible 768Kbps |
| Brett G. | That would be a terrible mistake. The best providers with the most satisfied customers are small and local. |
| Ken D. | I wonder where they got that number from... |
| Chris M. | http://www.amazon.com/This-Your-Brain-Musi’Ķ Is Your Brain On Music" _bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206968709&sr=8-1 |
| alex i. | and his blog http://ideas.4brad.com |
| shep | IIRC, I remember him as the moderator of rec.humor.funny |
| alex i. | yes, shep, he was that too. versatile dude |
| JoePlotkin | has entered the room |
| matthew b. | hey joe |
| Iz W. | joe you virtual? |
| shep | there's a BitTorrent company? who knew? (i thought it was just an open source bit of software) |
| Brett G. | The Internet was a network of servers from the beginning. |
| alex i. | no joes here |
| Mar 31 | 9:20 AM |
| Iz W. | awesome! |
| JoePlotkin | Im here |
| Tom M. | has entered the room |
| shep | "used financed networking" is what I call it |
| Brett G. | Middle? Er, I thought it was infallible dogma that it was all ends! |
| alex i. | BBS vs ISP |
| shep | er, I meant "user-financed networking" |
| alex i. | true shep -- original net built by schools govt etc and free to interconnect |
| Ken D. | Free? As in beer? |
| alex i. | not as in beer |
| Chris S. | Years later, there is still no fish-cam business model. |
| Greg E. | It was awful -- my experience of the stupid network model. |
| alex i. | as
in allowed to ... it _is_ strange -- the peering is very complicated
and I've been covering it for 8 years and i still don't understand it |
| Brett G. | Their investment is under water |
| Greg E. | fish-cam became YouTube. |
| Greg E. | Cost of sending a letter: $0.41. |
| Brett G. | Youtank? |
| alex i. | Brad fears per-bit (or per-Mbit) pricing |
| JoePlotkin | FishTube? |
| Doc S. | has entered the room |
| Tom M. | GoFish? |
| Greg E. | Cost of sending email: $0.00 (individually) |
| alex i. | yes isps want to charge |
| Brett G. | Oversale is the best way to deliver maximum value |
| matthew b. | that psychology of incremental spending doesn't really apply to our power bill |
| Chris S. | "up to" 5Mb |
| Greg E. | So
people pay hundreds of dollars a year for internet connectivity to send
AS MANY FREE EMAILS THEY WANT. But how many snail mail letters did you
send in the last 12 months? |
| Ken D. | Free? As in buy three tires and get the fourth for free? |
| Brett G. | Banks oversell too. They don't have enough money on hand to handle a run. |
| alex i. | per- GB monthly overcharges |
| Jim R. | the all you can eat model. Where they come and tell you that is all you can eat. |
| Mar 31 | 9:25 AM |
| alex i. | joe what say? bandwidth hogs? |
| JoePlotkin | actually wholesale internet access has dropped sooo much why oversell? |
| Ken D. | Oh, unlimited - but not that kind of unlimited. |
| Brett G. | But they expect you to have the capacity of a normal human. |
| David I. | Brett, good observation . . . you think that's why banks need to be regulated? |
| Brett G. | That's not why we regulate banks. |
| David I. | No? |
| DirkvanderW | has entered the room |
| JoePlotkin | asymmetric is a sad legacy |
| Ken D. | Agreed |
| Brett G. | No. When we regulate banks, we actually ENCOURAGE them to tie up their money in such a way that they couldn't handle a run. |
| Gregory M. | True, Brett |
| Chris S. | Pirates are at the cutting edge. |
| Brett G. | P2P is not the best technology at all. (Brad may have his BitTorrent hat on here) |
| Chris M. | Banks lend their depositors' money. If they had to keep it all on hand they couldn't lend any. |
| Doc S. | FWIW,
we have 2 fiber lines and one HFC (hybrid fiber coax) on the poles in
front of our house, and competition works. We have Verizon FiOS, with
20Mb symmetrial service, and believe me, we use the upstream. Mostly to
back up offsite and upload photos. Not much of a bittorrenter. |
| Brett G. | Exactly. And we have lending regulations that require them to lend. |
| JoePlotkin | everyone becomes a server |
| Doc S. | I'm not saying we should rely only on carriers, btw. Just making a point about the presence of competition. |
| Matt T. | its how they actually generate money |
| Paul B. | has left the room |
| alex i. | the isps I hear from fear video, not P2P |
| alex i. | |
| Chris M. | No,
they have a business model that requires them to lend, because that's
why they (originally ) went into business. We have regualtion so they
keep enough capital to handle a reasonable demand for cash |
| Ken D. | Darn tooting. |
| Mike W. | has entered the room |
| Chris S. | My BitTorrent use is subsidized by 5 grandmothers paying 49.99 per month to check their email? |
| Ken D. | Video is a real problem |
| Darcy G. | has entered the room |
| JoePlotkin | P2P is a bigger prob for cable - due to network architecture |
| Brett G. | There's
no "cognitive dissonance." We tell customers exactly what they are
buying. And residential grade customers are not buying bandwidth for
servers (unlike business customers). |
| Ken D. | YouTube will now move to high definition. |
| Brett G. | Wireless
is actually less subject to congestion by upsteram traffic than DOCSIS
(cable) because it is neither symmetrical or asymmetrical (it can shift
bandwidth from upstream to downstream at wll). |
| Mar 31 | 9:30 AM |
| Ken D. | That becomes a problem for the cable company because it eats into their revenue stream - selling video. |
| Brett G. | (Sorry for the typos) |
| alex i. | but brad isn't that more because of regulatory capture than because of the regs themselves? |
| David I. | Big exception -- The Bell System gave the US the Best Telephone System In The World for 60 years!!! |
| Gregory M. | Hmm, just wait until we're all using video-messaging. |
| judi | View paste
|
| David I. | but then technology outran the bell system |
| Doc S. | All
sweeping regulations comprehend the current environment, as perceived
at the time. And the perception will, inevitably, be flawed. |
| Brett G. | "Ma Bell, don't take my phone... |
| Ken D. | Anyone have a spare sarcasometer? I think mine just exploded. |
| Brett G. | "I want to lease, don't want to own... |
| alex i. | View paste
|
| alex i. | |
| Brett G. | "Breaking up is hard to do.... |
| Mike W. | you guys think small, old |
| Mike W. | its IS possible to write rules that contemplate the future |
| Mike W. | but who is the constituency to lobby for them? |
| Brett G. | Don't throw them in the fiber patch? |
| JoePlotkin | Universal service must die! |
| Doc S. | Brad's saying exactly what Michael Powell said on this stage two years ago. |
| alex i. | |
| Doc S. | at this moment, at least. |
| Michael S. | has entered the room |
| Mike W. | I know Doc. I'm getting nauseous |
| Gregory M. | Yes, this does have a de-ja-vue ring to it... |
| Chris S. | Did you get Universal Service Funding for your burning man phone booth? |
| Brett G. | Our rural wireless carrier CANNOT get Universal Service funds. |
| Brett G. | Even though many of our customers use us for VoIP. |
| Michael S. | has left the room |
| Ryan M. | has entered the room |
| Matt T. | did this phone get used by burning man? or did it become something unrelated? |
| Mar 31 | 9:35 AM |
| Paul B. | has entered the room |
| Brett G. | Probably a vehicle for performance art |
| alex i. | I know a WISP in colorado who complains that the people in town cannot get USF (town <1000) but the CEO ski shacks get it |
| Iz W. | the man called home right before he was burned. |
| shep | do you have to do E911 if you are providing free (as in beer) telephones? |
| alex i. | burning man phone home |
| Matt T. | they may have become scared of it |
| Brett G. | What??!!! EFF could have stopped CALEA but allowed it to happen! |
| Chris S. | Does Skype have to abide by CALEA? |
| alex i. | i think you can put warning label about E911 on VoIP service |
| Mike W. | it was a phantom phonebooth |
| Brett G. | John Perry Barlow, representing EFF, told Malcolm Wallop not to block the bill |
| alex i. | we are 1984 |
| Brett G. | So, in a very real sense, EFF was responsible for CALEA |
| Paul H. | has entered the room |
| Chris S. | Except when the FBI forgets to pay the bills |
| Mike W. | what about my shoe-phone? Can I get USF for it? 99? |
| Gregory M. | Wonder what JPB would think of Brad's comments.... |
| Brett G. | The FBI doesn't pay the bills when they tap an ISP -- only when they tap a telco |
| alex i. | _auctions_ are bad |
| shep | does Skype have to do E911? |
| Brett G. | Auctions are a way to maximize revenue. They are good at that. They are BAD at maximizing utility. |
| Mike W. | I want a Skype phone in the shape of a a shoe phone! |
| JoePlotkin | spectrum as property rights is anachronism |
| Chris S. | Comcast charges $1000 for a wiretap. Surely Comcast is an ISP - http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=9362 |
| alex i. | auctions sell spectrum at 10 % of value -- ask calabrese |
| alex i. | |
| Brett G. | Actually,
it's not an anachronism; it's something NEW. But it is a throwback to
another age in another sense: it's creating feudal baronies. |
| Ken D. | Auctions can be defended as fair market value, I would suggest |
| Chris S. | It's not illegal if the president does it |
| Gregory M. | feudal baronies... now that's an analogy |
| Brett G. | There's no "market." There is market failure. |
| alex i. | the unitary excutive -- the president is our king |
| Mar 31 | 9:40 AM |
| DirkvanderW | has left the room |
| Mike W. | In the unitary state, there is only one opinion that matters |
| Ken D. | You mean you don't sell your service at market rates? |
| Mike W. | Welcome to the Feudal State of Amerika |
| Ken D. | Are you giving it away for free? |
| Brett G. | It's
a very good analogy. Little guys like me are "spectrum serfs" or
"spectrum sharecroppers," because we can NEVER own our own small plot
of spectrum to till. |
| Doc S. | I'm blind! |
| Iz W. | shep
I have been looking for this online and only find things from 2005 at
the top of the search... looks like they have managed to avoid 911 so
far but that's just from what I read |
| alex i. | the decider |
| shep | big screen just went dark |
| Gregory M. | the analogy works... |
| Gregory M. | spectrum sharecroppers is even better |
| Ken D. | |
| Brett G. | Brad (like Susan) is denying our existence as competition! |
| Brett G. | We are not constrained by a lack of fiber |
| Gregory M. | clearly there is plenty of fiber |
| JoePlotkin | yes we are - weve lost customers to fios |
| Doc S. | Glass roots! Has anybody used it yet? |
| stage | big screen went to sleep mode |
| JoePlotkin | there's no une-fiber |
| Chris S. | Wait until the telcos lobby to make neighborhood fiber illegal |
| shep | I call this "guerilla fiber runs" |
| alex i. | anyone know how to turn off sleep mode on a mac? |
| Brett G. | Someone has to pay for running the fiber and maintaining the network. |
| Chris S. | Comcast: "we only delay P2P temporarily" |
| Iz W. | stage, you need electric sheep screensaver |
| matthew b. | if it doesn't wake up upon opening, try closing and re-opening |
| Brett G. | Are you going to risk your livelihood on your neighbor's dog not chewing through the neighborhood fiber? |
| Gregory M. | "Glass roots" now officially attributed to Doc Searls, 31.March.2008 |
| Brett G. | Actually, Comcast was wrong. They didn't delay it at ALL. |
| Mar 31 | 9:45 AM |
| Adam M. | isn't
saying that the only possible natural monopoly is digging up roads to
install some more fiber an exception that swallows the whole? |
| Ken D. | Thank you Brett. |
| Doc S. | Brett,
if folks in Laramie started stringing fenceline and curbside fiber on
their own, would you have a problem with that? Or would your business
help? (I admit I don't know enuf about your biz...) |
| Ken D. | this stuff isn't free. |
| Greg E. | Interesting new P2P development: distributed databases like ThingDB and distributed versioning systems like Mercurial. |
| Iz W. | electric sheep screensaver is huge legal bittorrent user - founder Scott Draves coming here tomorrow to demo |
| Brett G. | When we started, we considered doing exactly that. We went to wireless because it was much more practical. |
| Iz W. | (disclosure he is my client) |
| Mike W. | Adam, no. Its not even true... laying fiber under streets is getting cheaper all the time |
| Ken D. | Less expensive and faster time to operation |
| Chris S. | Comcast: please don't regulate us... |
| Brett G. | Fiber is not that cheap. |
| Gregory M. | Sly devil... |
| Joe C. | has entered the room |
| JoePlotkin | coming up on 25 year anniversary of Ma Bell breakup + we need to do it again! |
| Ken D. | Mike, and what price would you peg the per mile cost at, including customer splicing. |
| Brett G. | Regulating ISPs would annoy Comcast (a little). It could well kill independents like me. |
| Iz W. | like boochmooch |
| Mike W. | Klopt, Ken |
| Iz W. | bookmooch. a p2p book network |
| Jim R. | they broke up Ma Bell???? |
| scrawford | has entered the room |
| JoePlotkin | we need open markets - not unenforceable regs |
| Chris S. | Except that Comcast couldn't tell the difference between BitTorrent and Lotus Notes. |
| Ken D. | ONce upon a time. |
| Ken D. | I was young then |
| Brett G. | If you run a lot of fiber, it's about $1K-2K per BLOCK. |
| Ken D. | Mike ? |
| AKMA | has entered the room |
| Mike W. | Don't make me build this thing! But it is much cheaper than say 10 years ago |
| alex i. | bye bye american pie the day the bell labs died |
| Ken D. | I use the $10k/mile unmber |
| Brett G. | I've priced sawing the concrete, burying the fiber, patching the asphalt. |
| Doc S. | Sascha
and I (and perhaps a few others here) were just at a small conf in CA
where it was made clear that fibering up neighborhoods, and even
houses, can be a DIY or small contractor business. The latest single
and multiple conduits range in width from cigarettes to cigars. |
| Mike W. | cheaper trenching, rocket powered underground cable pullers, etc. |
| Brett G. | And the City wants a franchise agreement! |
| Ken D. | plus customer connections running about $700 oer user |
| Chris S. | Hint: If Congressman Markey is making jokes about your networking policy, it's not very subtle. |
| Ken D. | Anyone have a better number? |
| Gregory M. | Comcast pledged this? In writing, where? |
| Brett G. | Brad: TCP RST packets were never "forgery" because an IP address is not a name (and does not belong to the customer) |
| Doc S. | Should
be good synergy with the small ISPs, if not also the large ones. We
should be working with local munis to do the small biz friendly thing. |
| Sascha M. | as
Doc mentions -- the next generation of fiber build is pretty much plug
and play -- if you can build a lego ship, you can build a fiber
infrastructure. |
| alex i. | this sounds like cacheflow of Cambridge Eng |
| Sascha M. | the technology was highly intuitive and simple to deploy. |
| Mike W. | Franchise agreement... why not if you are using the public property? |
| Brett G. | Local muni fiber projects (see, for example, Powell, Wyoming) invariably favor the big guys |
| Adam M. | So
the chatroom consensus is that not even trenching for fiber should be
considered a natural monopoly. That makes much more sense. |
| Ken D. | At what cost? |
| Mike W. | Shouldn't the public be paid, too? |
| Mar 31 | 9:50 AM |
| Ken D. | Why? ISPs don't get paid? |
| Mike W. | sounds pretty fuzzy to me, David |
| Gregory M. | timeout for a community building exercise :-) |
| Mike W. | How did I get in here, then? |
| Brett G. | We make such small margins that it sure FEELS as if we do not get paid. |
| Ken D. | digital divide |
| Mike W. | ?? |
| Ken D. | How you got in here - closing the digital divide |
| Angela S. | has entered the room |
| alex i. | the money is very important |
| Ken D. | How you got in here - closing the digital divide |
| Brett G. | In cell phone networks, we all pay for our link to the middle as well (though by the minute) |
| Ken D. | Oops |
| alex i. | the stupid network |
| Aleecia M. | Seems
to me that Comcast cares a lot less about upswell of consumer anger
than the FCC checking in and the threat of legislation. I do not
understand why Brad would want to step away from having legislation as
a very real and credible threat, it seems a highly useful tool. |
| alex i. | if you need the link: |
| alex i. | |
| Chris S. | Comcast lied non stop until the EFF and AP caught them red handed. |
| Doc S. | local
munis are used to dealing with either building their own utilities
(roads, water, waste treatment) or engaging large external monopolies
(gas, electric, cable TV, telephony). To them a utility is a Big Thing,
not a set of protocols that allow anything to connect with anything.
What they need to do is ease the installing of the physical stuff
(including wireless stuff) that makes it happen. |
| Brett G. | The network is not stupid. Internet backbone routers are special purpose supercomputers. |
| Gregory M. | legislation is a double edge sword |
| Aleecia M. | And EPP++ plus, my gosh, actual reporting. |
| shep | Steve
Crocker's point rephrased by me: The most important thing is to not
need to ask permission of the network operator to deploy some new
application on the net. |
| Doc S. | Perhaps a dumb question... Do we need all the routers? |
| alex i. | shep + + + |
| Brett G. | Comcast was inept at handling its PR. The fact is that it was managing its network quite reasonably. |
| Gregory M. | good question Doc |
| Brett G. | Doc: Durn right we do! Ask any network engineer what happens if you bridge instead of routing. |
| Chris S. | Brett: Thats because lawyers don't do good PR. |
| Aleecia M. | (How can a subjective judgment of reasonableness be a fact?) |
| Mar 31 | 9:55 AM |
| Brett G. | Comcast should have let their techies talk. |
| Brett G. | All you need is a reasonable definition of "reasonable." |
| Aleecia M. | Heh :-) |
| Matt T. | good voice with that |
| Doc S. | ...
and Comcast shouldn't have packed the Ames Courtroom with seat warmers,
then weaseled about it. One of the dumbest moves, ever. |
| shep | already more than 2 seconds |
| Chris S. | The Bush administration sells the air too. |
| Gregory M. | 70 seconds |
| shep | when are they going to start selling the acoustic spectrum? |
| Brett G. | Comcast
CLAIMS that those people were line holders who were supposed to be
replaced by their employees, who couldn't get into the hall to take
over the seats. Dunno if that claim is correct or not. |
| alex i. | should be leased -- not sold -- |
| JoePlotkin | amen roxanne!! |
| Ken D. | Talk to the RIAA, I'm sure it was worth it. |
| Greg E. | Or giving mining rights! |
| Iz W. | brett if you believe that I have a bridge to sell you |
| Gregory M. | Brett, puh-lease; and you bought that? |
| Shawn C. | that's why we need unlicensed, the wireless carriers now want another auction for TV white spaces |
| Iz W. | voxable! |
| Gregory M. | nooooo, not the IP question |
| Greg E. | Or allowing water bottlers taking ground water and spring water and not paying for it. |
| Chris S. | Yay one click |
| Darcy G. | has left the room |
| alex i. | yay patent challenges |
| Brett G. | I
won't discount it. They might have been inept enough to think that the
doors wouldn't be closed and they could have their people replace the
line holders. |
| Michael B. | has entered the room |
| Chris S. | Reasonable network management remains, for now, novel. |
| shep | currently
when the FCC issues (auctions, whatever) a license, it comes with two
parts bundled together: (1) license to radiate, and (2) protection from
interference. I wish these two would be completely seperated and
thought about independently. |
| Gregory M. | not concerned about the patent issue itself only the rat hole we can fall into here... |
| Iz W. | anyone
who has ever waited in line knows you need to replace the line holder
BEFORE they go into the symphony, not once they are in their seats |
| Sascha M. | shep -- you might be interested in the 3650-3700MHz band. |
| Sascha M. | it basically creates this separation. |
| Brett G. | In a ticketed event, yes. But this wasn't ticketed. |
| Ken D. | I
want to see a low power underlay of some of the choice spectrum,
preferably the ones that are accessible by the common WiFi chipsets. |
| Jim R. | has left the room |
| Brett G. | The 3650 MHz band can't be used in many areas -- including right here! |
| Mar 31 | 10:00 AM |
| Ken D. | Shep, as long as you aren't in a blacked out area/ |
| Iz W. | even if they did mean to "replace" them it's a dirty trick to pack the house with your side by hiring lineholders |
| Ken D. | Right |
| Chris S. | Verizon: short text messages don't qualify for common carriage. |
| Brett G. | Well, the PANEL (the most important seats) were packed by Comcast's detractors |
| JoePlotkin | unlicensed non-interfering use of spectrum -- look whats been done with 2.4GHz |
| Sascha M. | ken
-- public interest groups attempted to get interference temperature
passed (which would allow underlay below the noise floor). alas, the
FCC refused to o.k. the idea. |
| Ken D. | I know. |
| Ken D. | I wish they would be more aware. |
| Brett G. | 2.4 GHz is TOO unregulated - tragedy of the commons. We should see more 3650 MHz-like rules |
| Ken D. | Brett, I disagree. |
| Aleecia M. | How would you implement interference temperature in any robust way? |
| JoePlotkin | no Brett -- we just need more spectrum |
| alex i. | end of session one and I'm on page 5 of notes |
| Ken D. | This is a location dependent statement |
| Sascha M. | Brett
-- yeah, the satellite uplinks are protected in the 3650-3700 band --
what we need is to open up additional bands (for WISPs, individuals,
the general populace) |
| Mike W. | has left the room |
| scrawford | has left the room |
| Brett G. | That's like saying we need more lanes on the Beltway and all traffic problems will go away. |
| Brett G. | |
| AKMA | has left the room |
| Mar 31 | 10:10 AM |
| Izumi A. | has left the room |
| robb t. | has entered the room |
| matthew b. | has left the room |
| Michael W. | has left the room |
| Tony A. | has left the room |
| Chris S. | has left the room |
| Aleecia M. | has left the room |
| Iz W. | has left the room |
| Chris M. | has left the room |
| Ron S. | has left the room |
| Ken D. | has left the room |
| FACO | has left the room |
| JoePlotkin | has left the room |
| Tom M. | has left the room |
| Doc S. | has left the room |
| Paul H. | has left the room |
| Angela S. | has left the room |
| Michael B. | has left the room |
| Mar 31 | 10:15 AM |
| RJA | has left the room |
| Micah S. | has left the room |
| Mary G. | has left the room |
| stage | test |
| Matt T. | test |
| Mar 31 | 10:20 AM |
| Suw C. | has left the room |
| Greg E. | has left the room |
| Matt T. | tst |
| Mar 31 | 10:25 AM |
| robb t. | has left the room |
| Frank P. | has entered the room |
| Mar 31 | 10:30 AM |
| marc | has entered the room |
| Jim R. | has entered the room |
| marc | hello |
| Gregory M. | hello |
| Suw C. | has entered the room |
| Michael W. | has entered the room |
| Frank H. | has entered the room |
| alex i. | yay AFI Silver |
| Michael S. | has entered the room |
| robb t. | has entered the room |
| Tom M. | has entered the room |
| Chris S. | has entered the room |
| Michael B. | has entered the room |
| JoePlotkin | has entered the room |
| Mar 31 | 10:35 AM |
| Tony A. | has entered the room |
| Greg E. | has entered the room |
| alex i. | donna edwards http://www.google.com/search?num=100&h’Ķ |
| JoePlotkin | suggestion: more electrical outlets |
| alex i. | I brought a belkin |
| AKMA | has entered the room |
| Mike W. | has entered the room |
| Angela S. | has entered the room |
| alex i. | suggestion: ask everyone to bring a belkin |
| matthew b. | has entered the room |
| Brett G. | I just brought a low tech extension cord |
| robb t. |
changed the room’Äôs topic to
Hello
|
| Frank P. | I don't really blame Micah for 2000 |
| Mike W. | world thumbfighting federation? |
| Steven C. | alex, ty for the belkin, btw |
| Doc S. | has entered the room |
| Chris M. | has entered the room |
| Brett G. | An arena is hitting an arena? |
| Tony A. | It was "Where's the Fiber?" |
| Brett G. | [CRUNCH] |
| Mike W. | that's a lot of hitting |
| Doc S. | Anybody know why AIM/iChat doesn't work? |
| DirkvanderW | has entered the room |
| alex i. | steven i think that's david's belkin |
| AKMA | It doesn't? |
| Matt T. | waiting to finish |
| alex i. | So AKMA, tell us about Obama's church |
| Chris S. | Doc -> ssh -D 12345 user@your.machine.harvard.edu, and proxy your AIM through that. |
| Brad T. | has entered the room |
| Mike W. | I'm a lawyer, so I don't answer the 'why' questions |
| AKMA | Supposed to be a pretty cool place |
| AKMA | We send students there to observer |
| Matt T. | aim works fine here |
| mbpdx | has entered the room |
| Steven C. | oh, thanks, david. we need a belkin mesh to reach the middle seats |
| AKMA | observe |
| Mike W. | ohhh no.... |
| Steven C. | aim and y messenger both work fine |
| Mar 31 | 10:40 AM |
| Mike W. | chewwwing |
| Chris S. | "Google government" == the NSA logging our data forever? |
| Doc S. | thanks, chris. Never ssh'd to the Harvard one. good time to start... |
| Tom M. | Good to hear that, AKMA. I've wanted to attend a service there for a long time. |
| Brett G. | Obama has embraced "network neutrality" without stating which definition he advocates |
| AKMA | Our students always come back wild about it |
| Mike W. | no biting, no hitting Micah |
| Mike W. | Change Congress |
| Doc S. | Can you fix Congress the same way you fix a dog? |
| Tom M. | they'll never stop barking, doc. |
| Greg E. | |
| Brett G. | The Bush administration already has |
| Mary G. | has entered the room |
| Paul H. | has entered the room |
| Mike W. | change-congress.org Larry Lessig's new effort |
| Tom M. | this is a great idea! |
| Greg E. | Proposed: Transparency in Government Act of 2008 |