F2C Day 1 Monday, March 31

Tuesday, April 1

Mar 31
12:05 AM
Francois L.
has entered the room
Francois L.
has left the room
Francois L.
has entered the room
Francois L.
has left the room
Mar 31
7:00 AM
Bill S.
has entered the room
Mar 31
7:30 AM
judi
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judi
Good morning Bill
Mar 31
7:35 AM
Nicholas G.
has entered the room
Nicholas G.
good morning Judi -
Nicholas G.
this works well enough
judi
Hi Nicholas. The chat works well enough?
judi
have you checked out the QT broadcast yet?
Nicholas G.
it does - testing -
Nicholas G.
still twiddling with it -
judi
I just started a test broadcast (setting up)
Mar 31
7:40 AM
Nicholas G.
so far I'm just getting a a "not found" message
Nicholas G.
but I am on a dubious hotel connection BTGW
Nicholas G.
BTW
judi
oops, my fault. sorry. try now
Nicholas G.
streaming in sans hitch -
Nicholas G.
thanks Judi
Nicholas G.
NRG
judi
thx!
Mar 31
7:55 AM
Nicholas G.
has left the room
Matt T.
has entered the room
Mar 31
8:00 AM
Matt T.
Hello all!
broadcast
has entered the room
Mar 31
8:05 AM
Brough T.
has entered the room
broadcast
open from Quicktime, FILE -> Open URL: stream: rtsp://harmony.law.harvard.edu/f2c.sdp
Mar 31
8:10 AM
broadcast
Matt: please help David get the on-stage monitor working with chat?
Matt T.
ok, I will
broadcast
thx
stage
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Mar 31
8:15 AM
matthew b.
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Mar 31
8:20 AM
Aaron S.
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Mar 31
8:25 AM
Michael W.
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judi
video stream going offline temporarily, will be back in a moment
Mar 31
8:30 AM
Tony A.
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Jim R.
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Chris S.
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Mar 31
8:35 AM
Aleecia M.
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Chris R.
has entered the room
Suw C.
has entered the room
Gregory M.
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stage
text size OK?
Aleecia M.
beautiful
Gregory M.
nicel done Howard & Chris
Mar 31
8:40 AM
Micah S.
has entered the room
Steven C.
has entered the room
Heath R.
has entered the room
Iz W.
has entered the room
Francois L.
has entered the room
Iz W.
judi's haircut is rockin'
Chris S.
Or comcast
Mar 31
8:45 AM
Matt T.
Video broadcast- rtsp://harmony.law.harvard.edu/f2c.sdp
Jim R.
has left the room
Jim R.
has entered the room
shep
has entered the room
alex i.
has entered the room
Brett G.
has entered the room
Brett G.
G'mornin'! (Stretching)
Chris M.
has entered the room
Mar 31
8:50 AM
Brett G.
AT&T = Slime mold
Ron S.
has entered the room
Brett G.
(Divided to get past an obstacle)
Brett G.
(The obstacle being regulation)
alex i.
I think there was a manifesto in here somewhere
Izumi A.
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alex i.
neocons love monopolies, even hazlett
Micah S.
neo e-cons, nice term!
Brett G.
The "invisible hand" is very effective at delivering wedgies
Iz W.
cute brett
Ken D.
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Steven C.
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alex i.
hi iz, you logging on from home?
Mar 31
8:55 AM
Ken D.
Brett, I think you owe an apology to slime mold everywhere.
Brett G.
Is there a fungus amongus?
shep
without any EDFAs?
Stig H.
has entered the room
Heath R.
Humongous fungus among us
Steven C.
has entered the room
Iz W.
alex I'm in the front row
Iz W.
2nd front
Shawn C.
has entered the room
Brett G.
That's not the big problem. The problem is that it's hard to tap into that fiber.
Chris S.
Thankfully, you don't get searched by TSA to get online.
Greg E.
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alex i.
pickles and ice cream
Brett G.
No, but CALEA means that you can always be pulled aside for a search. Only you won't know you'll being searched.
Brad T.
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Ken D.
Alex, are you pregnant?
shep
... actually, the existence of The Net actually stimulates more travel then there would otherwise be, because people get to know people who are distant and then wind up traveling because they want to meet these people face-to-face. F2C is an example of this.
alex i.
not me
Iz W.
alex :-)
Michael W.
I took the metro here
Mar 31
9:00 AM
Micah S.
"Benkler-style": not two words you often see used side-by-side
Mar 31
9:00 AM
FACO
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alex i.
ken u still buidling rural MD networks?
Ken D.
No, designing ultra high speed wireless infrastructure equipment.
alex i.
Gbps!
Brett G.
The trick is getting the spectrum.
Ken D.
Not quite, 400Mbps/400Mbps down per node on a layer 2 switched network
Ken D.
er 400Mbps up./400Mbps down
Ken D.
aggregate
Brett G.
Possible, but only if you have about a gigahertz of spectrum and/or are allowed very high power levels.
matthew b.
Iz W.
lovely music
Ken D.
That would suppose that one would need long links, we don't.
Ken D.
This is designed to deal with densely populated urban environments, think Bombay.
Sascha M.
has entered the room
Iz W.
"as the brain decays the music stays" - something to live by?
Matt T.
i hope
Mar 31
9:05 AM
Ken D.
Good, that would be one of the things I would hope to be able to continue to enjoy, just after loved ones.
Brett G.
Susan: You're denying my existence!
RJA
has entered the room
Ken D.
Alex, your namesake would say hello, if he could speak.
Ken D.
;-)
Brett G.
We and other WISPs compete very gamely with cable companies and telcos. We don't do "buncles" and we don't have market power.
alex i.
:-)
Brett G.
There are between 4000 and 8000 small, independent ISPs
alex i.
we need antitrust that works
Paul B.
has entered the room
Brough T.
has left the room
Ken D.
The information I am seeing suggests that we are now below 2000 ISPs/WISPs
Ken D.
That 8,00 number is one of Marlon's assertions.
Brett G.
I'm helping people to start more!
Ken D.
Keep it up!
Sascha M.
i have the ISP numbers around here somewhere...
Brett G.
In any event, Internet service is not an oligopoly. However, if we regulate the little guys out of business, it WILL be.
alex i.
Mary G.
has entered the room
Brett G.
I am not here. I do not exist.
Mar 31
9:10 AM
Sascha M.
and the numbers are stunning. i'm working on a piece about the fall of us broadband penetration ranking and the loss of isps -- the correlation is eyeopening.
Brett G.
[POOF!]
Brett G.
<POOF!>
Ken D.
Brett, you are virtual?
Sascha M.
View paste
2001	8,450
2002	7,627
2003	4,249
2004	4,327
2005	4,417
alex i.
the numbers on subscribers are amazing too
Sascha M.
those are us census figures.
alex i.
especially VoIP subscribers -- now dominated by cable
Brett G.
I'm virtually astonished at the fact that Susan is looking almost right at me and denying that I exist.
alex i.
sascha, what's the source?
Ken D.
Seems like the numbers are dropping steadily.
Sascha M.
View paste
here's the numbers with OECD and ITU rankings:
Year	# of firms	OECD 	ITU
2001	8,450	4	
2002	7,627	8	11
2003	4,249	10	13
2004	4,327	12	16
2005	4,417	12	16
Brett G.
If we do the wrong things, they COULD drop to zero.
Sascha M.
sources are the US census, OECD and ITU.
Brad T.
has left the room
Brett G.
Although I don't believe they've dropped as much as Sascha says above. We've gotten new competitors in town over those years.
Adam M.
has entered the room
Sascha M.
Brett: well, could be that the US Census, OECD, and ITU have formed an international conspiracy to overstate this data... it's their data, not my own.
David I.
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Iz W.
yeah brett, I dont think sascha made up those stats
Ken D.
Sascha, do I detect a note of sarcasm there?
Ken D.
I may need my sarcasometer calibrated.
alex i.
I do think that most official stats ignore very small wireless networks, < 500 subs, but the telcos aren't worried about them and can destroy them by building out DSL and cable
Mar 31
9:15 AM
Brett G.
We all know that the FCC has recently revised its data collection on broadband providers because the collection methods came under fire; see http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attaĶ
Ken D.
The FCC ignores wireless operator below 250 subs, if I recall correctly.
Ken D.
On the good side we now have the definition of broadband moved up to an increedible 768Kbps
Brett G.
That would be a terrible mistake. The best providers with the most satisfied customers are small and local.
Ken D.
I wonder where they got that number from...
Chris M.
http://www.amazon.com/This-Your-Brain-MusiĶ Is Your Brain On Music" _bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206968709&sr=8-1
alex i.
shep
IIRC, I remember him as the moderator of rec.humor.funny
alex i.
yes, shep, he was that too. versatile dude
JoePlotkin
has entered the room
matthew b.
hey joe
Iz W.
joe you virtual?
shep
there's a BitTorrent company? who knew? (i thought it was just an open source bit of software)
Brett G.
The Internet was a network of servers from the beginning.
alex i.
no joes here
Mar 31
9:20 AM
Iz W.
awesome!
JoePlotkin
Im here
Tom M.
has entered the room
shep
"used financed networking" is what I call it
Brett G.
Middle? Er, I thought it was infallible dogma that it was all ends!
alex i.
BBS vs ISP
shep
er, I meant "user-financed networking"
alex i.
true shep -- original net built by schools govt etc and free to interconnect
Ken D.
Free? As in beer?
alex i.
not as in beer
Chris S.
Years later, there is still no fish-cam business model.
Greg E.
It was awful -- my experience of the stupid network model.
alex i.
as in allowed to ... it _is_ strange -- the peering is very complicated and I've been covering it for 8 years and i still don't understand it
Brett G.
Their investment is under water
Greg E.
fish-cam became YouTube.
Greg E.
Cost of sending a letter: $0.41.
Brett G.
Youtank?
alex i.
Brad fears per-bit (or per-Mbit) pricing
JoePlotkin
FishTube?
Doc S.
has entered the room
Tom M.
GoFish?
Greg E.
Cost of sending email: $0.00 (individually)
alex i.
yes isps want to charge
Brett G.
Oversale is the best way to deliver maximum value
matthew b.
that psychology of incremental spending doesn't really apply to our power bill
Chris S.
"up to" 5Mb
Greg E.
So people pay hundreds of dollars a year for internet connectivity to send AS MANY FREE EMAILS THEY WANT. But how many snail mail letters did you send in the last 12 months?
Ken D.
Free? As in buy three tires and get the fourth for free?
Brett G.
Banks oversell too. They don't have enough money on hand to handle a run.
alex i.
per- GB monthly overcharges
Jim R.
the all you can eat model. Where they come and tell you that is all you can eat.
Mar 31
9:25 AM
alex i.
joe what say? bandwidth hogs?
JoePlotkin
actually wholesale internet access has dropped sooo much why oversell?
Ken D.
Oh, unlimited - but not that kind of unlimited.
Brett G.
But they expect you to have the capacity of a normal human.
David I.
Brett, good observation . . . you think that's why banks need to be regulated?
Brett G.
That's not why we regulate banks.
David I.
No?
DirkvanderW
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JoePlotkin
asymmetric is a sad legacy
Ken D.
Agreed
Brett G.
No. When we regulate banks, we actually ENCOURAGE them to tie up their money in such a way that they couldn't handle a run.
Gregory M.
True, Brett
Chris S.
Pirates are at the cutting edge.
Brett G.
P2P is not the best technology at all. (Brad may have his BitTorrent hat on here)
Chris M.
Banks lend their depositors' money. If they had to keep it all on hand they couldn't lend any.
Doc S.
FWIW, we have 2 fiber lines and one HFC (hybrid fiber coax) on the poles in front of our house, and competition works. We have Verizon FiOS, with 20Mb symmetrial service, and believe me, we use the upstream. Mostly to back up offsite and upload photos. Not much of a bittorrenter.
Brett G.
Exactly. And we have lending regulations that require them to lend.
JoePlotkin
everyone becomes a server
Doc S.
I'm not saying we should rely only on carriers, btw. Just making a point about the presence of competition.
Matt T.
its how they actually generate money
Paul B.
has left the room
alex i.
the isps I hear from fear video, not P2P
alex i.
Chris M.
No, they have a business model that requires them to lend, because that's why they (originally ) went into business. We have regualtion so they keep enough capital to handle a reasonable demand for cash
Ken D.
Darn tooting.
Mike W.
has entered the room
Chris S.
My BitTorrent use is subsidized by 5 grandmothers paying 49.99 per month to check their email?
Ken D.
Video is a real problem
Darcy G.
has entered the room
JoePlotkin
P2P is a bigger prob for cable - due to network architecture
Brett G.
There's no "cognitive dissonance." We tell customers exactly what they are buying. And residential grade customers are not buying bandwidth for servers (unlike business customers).
Ken D.
YouTube will now move to high definition.
Brett G.
Wireless is actually less subject to congestion by upsteram traffic than DOCSIS (cable) because it is neither symmetrical or asymmetrical (it can shift bandwidth from upstream to downstream at wll).
Mar 31
9:30 AM
Ken D.
That becomes a problem for the cable company because it eats into their revenue stream - selling video.
Brett G.
(Sorry for the typos)
alex i.
but brad isn't that more because of regulatory capture than because of the regs themselves?
David I.
Big exception -- The Bell System gave the US the Best Telephone System In The World for 60 years!!!
Gregory M.
Hmm, just wait until we're all using video-messaging.
judi
View paste
Quicktime broadcast:
  rtsp://harmony.law.harvard.edu/f2c.sdp
Guest access to the chat:
  https://f2c08.campfirenow.com/1de9e
David I.
but then technology outran the bell system
Doc S.
All sweeping regulations comprehend the current environment, as perceived at the time. And the perception will, inevitably, be flawed.
Brett G.
"Ma Bell, don't take my phone...
Ken D.
Anyone have a spare sarcasometer? I think mine just exploded.
Brett G.
"I want to lease, don't want to own...
alex i.
View paste
"If it was usage based," Smith says, "I'd open everybody up to 
full throttle. But customers want to pay $30 per month and not worry about 
usage. Calculating prices is like doing an actuarial table. People who buy 
256 Kbps and are doing a little browsing and e-mail are [subsidizing] the 
tech-savvy user who has a 3 Mbps connection and is using it full throttle." 

"The people in the bottom tiers are paying too much and those in the top 
tiers are paying too little. We're charged based on the 95th percentile of
usage. I could open bigger a bigger pipe but the customer doesn't want to
 pay for that." 
alex i.
Brett G.
"Breaking up is hard to do....
Mike W.
you guys think small, old
Mike W.
its IS possible to write rules that contemplate the future
Mike W.
but who is the constituency to lobby for them?
Brett G.
Don't throw them in the fiber patch?
JoePlotkin
Universal service must die!
Doc S.
Brad's saying exactly what Michael Powell said on this stage two years ago.
alex i.
Doc S.
at this moment, at least.
Michael S.
has entered the room
Mike W.
I know Doc. I'm getting nauseous
Gregory M.
Yes, this does have a de-ja-vue ring to it...
Chris S.
Did you get Universal Service Funding for your burning man phone booth?
Brett G.
Our rural wireless carrier CANNOT get Universal Service funds.
Brett G.
Even though many of our customers use us for VoIP.
Michael S.
has left the room
Ryan M.
has entered the room
Matt T.
did this phone get used by burning man? or did it become something unrelated?
Mar 31
9:35 AM
Paul B.
has entered the room
Brett G.
Probably a vehicle for performance art
alex i.
I know a WISP in colorado who complains that the people in town cannot get USF (town <1000) but the CEO ski shacks get it
Iz W.
the man called home right before he was burned.
shep
do you have to do E911 if you are providing free (as in beer) telephones?
alex i.
burning man phone home
Matt T.
they may have become scared of it
Brett G.
What??!!! EFF could have stopped CALEA but allowed it to happen!
Chris S.
Does Skype have to abide by CALEA?
alex i.
i think you can put warning label about E911 on VoIP service
Mike W.
it was a phantom phonebooth
Brett G.
John Perry Barlow, representing EFF, told Malcolm Wallop not to block the bill
alex i.
we are 1984
Brett G.
So, in a very real sense, EFF was responsible for CALEA
Paul H.
has entered the room
Chris S.
Except when the FBI forgets to pay the bills
Mike W.
what about my shoe-phone? Can I get USF for it? 99?
Gregory M.
Wonder what JPB would think of Brad's comments....
Brett G.
The FBI doesn't pay the bills when they tap an ISP -- only when they tap a telco
alex i.
_auctions_ are bad
shep
does Skype have to do E911?
Brett G.
Auctions are a way to maximize revenue. They are good at that. They are BAD at maximizing utility.
Mike W.
I want a Skype phone in the shape of a a shoe phone!
JoePlotkin
spectrum as property rights is anachronism
Chris S.
Comcast charges $1000 for a wiretap. Surely Comcast is an ISP - http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=9362
alex i.
auctions sell spectrum at 10 % of value -- ask calabrese
alex i.
Brett G.
Actually, it's not an anachronism; it's something NEW. But it is a throwback to another age in another sense: it's creating feudal baronies.
Ken D.
Auctions can be defended as fair market value, I would suggest
Chris S.
It's not illegal if the president does it
Gregory M.
feudal baronies... now that's an analogy
Brett G.
There's no "market." There is market failure.
alex i.
the unitary excutive -- the president is our king
Mar 31
9:40 AM
DirkvanderW
has left the room
Mike W.
In the unitary state, there is only one opinion that matters
Ken D.
You mean you don't sell your service at market rates?
Mike W.
Welcome to the Feudal State of Amerika
Ken D.
Are you giving it away for free?
Brett G.
It's a very good analogy. Little guys like me are "spectrum serfs" or "spectrum sharecroppers," because we can NEVER own our own small plot of spectrum to till.
Doc S.
I'm blind!
Iz W.
shep I have been looking for this online and only find things from 2005 at the top of the search... looks like they have managed to avoid 911 so far but that's just from what I read
alex i.
the decider
shep
big screen just went dark
Gregory M.
the analogy works...
Gregory M.
spectrum sharecroppers is even better
Ken D.
View paste
I
 like that.
Brett G.
Brad (like Susan) is denying our existence as competition!
Brett G.
We are not constrained by a lack of fiber
Gregory M.
clearly there is plenty of fiber
JoePlotkin
yes we are - weve lost customers to fios
Doc S.
Glass roots! Has anybody used it yet?
stage
big screen went to sleep mode
JoePlotkin
there's no une-fiber
Chris S.
Wait until the telcos lobby to make neighborhood fiber illegal
shep
I call this "guerilla fiber runs"
alex i.
anyone know how to turn off sleep mode on a mac?
Brett G.
Someone has to pay for running the fiber and maintaining the network.
Chris S.
Comcast: "we only delay P2P temporarily"
Iz W.
stage, you need electric sheep screensaver
matthew b.
if it doesn't wake up upon opening, try closing and re-opening
Brett G.
Are you going to risk your livelihood on your neighbor's dog not chewing through the neighborhood fiber?
Gregory M.
"Glass roots" now officially attributed to Doc Searls, 31.March.2008
Brett G.
Actually, Comcast was wrong. They didn't delay it at ALL.
Mar 31
9:45 AM
Adam M.
isn't saying that the only possible natural monopoly is digging up roads to install some more fiber an exception that swallows the whole?
Ken D.
Thank you Brett.
Doc S.
Brett, if folks in Laramie started stringing fenceline and curbside fiber on their own, would you have a problem with that? Or would your business help? (I admit I don't know enuf about your biz...)
Ken D.
this stuff isn't free.
Greg E.
Interesting new P2P development: distributed databases like ThingDB and distributed versioning systems like Mercurial.
Iz W.
electric sheep screensaver is huge legal bittorrent user - founder Scott Draves coming here tomorrow to demo
Brett G.
When we started, we considered doing exactly that. We went to wireless because it was much more practical.
Iz W.
(disclosure he is my client)
Mike W.
Adam, no. Its not even true... laying fiber under streets is getting cheaper all the time
Ken D.
Less expensive and faster time to operation
Chris S.
Comcast: please don't regulate us...
Brett G.
Fiber is not that cheap.
Gregory M.
Sly devil...
Joe C.
has entered the room
JoePlotkin
coming up on 25 year anniversary of Ma Bell breakup + we need to do it again!
Ken D.
Mike, and what price would you peg the per mile cost at, including customer splicing.
Brett G.
Regulating ISPs would annoy Comcast (a little). It could well kill independents like me.
Iz W.
like boochmooch
Mike W.
Klopt, Ken
Iz W.
bookmooch. a p2p book network
Jim R.
they broke up Ma Bell????
scrawford
has entered the room
JoePlotkin
we need open markets - not unenforceable regs
Chris S.
Except that Comcast couldn't tell the difference between BitTorrent and Lotus Notes.
Ken D.
ONce upon a time.
Ken D.
I was young then
Brett G.
If you run a lot of fiber, it's about $1K-2K per BLOCK.
Ken D.
Mike ?
AKMA
has entered the room
Mike W.
Don't make me build this thing! But it is much cheaper than say 10 years ago
alex i.
bye bye american pie the day the bell labs died
Ken D.
I use the $10k/mile unmber
Brett G.
I've priced sawing the concrete, burying the fiber, patching the asphalt.
Doc S.
Sascha and I (and perhaps a few others here) were just at a small conf in CA where it was made clear that fibering up neighborhoods, and even houses, can be a DIY or small contractor business. The latest single and multiple conduits range in width from cigarettes to cigars.
Mike W.
cheaper trenching, rocket powered underground cable pullers, etc.
Brett G.
And the City wants a franchise agreement!
Ken D.
plus customer connections running about $700 oer user
Chris S.
Hint: If Congressman Markey is making jokes about your networking policy, it's not very subtle.
Ken D.
Anyone have a better number?
Gregory M.
Comcast pledged this? In writing, where?
Brett G.
Brad: TCP RST packets were never "forgery" because an IP address is not a name (and does not belong to the customer)
Doc S.
Should be good synergy with the small ISPs, if not also the large ones. We should be working with local munis to do the small biz friendly thing.
Sascha M.
as Doc mentions -- the next generation of fiber build is pretty much plug and play -- if you can build a lego ship, you can build a fiber infrastructure.
alex i.
this sounds like cacheflow of Cambridge Eng
Sascha M.
the technology was highly intuitive and simple to deploy.
Mike W.
Franchise agreement... why not if you are using the public property?
Brett G.
Local muni fiber projects (see, for example, Powell, Wyoming) invariably favor the big guys
Adam M.
So the chatroom consensus is that not even trenching for fiber should be considered a natural monopoly. That makes much more sense.
Ken D.
At what cost?
Mike W.
Shouldn't the public be paid, too?
Mar 31
9:50 AM
Ken D.
Why? ISPs don't get paid?
Mike W.
sounds pretty fuzzy to me, David
Gregory M.
timeout for a community building exercise :-)
Mike W.
How did I get in here, then?
Brett G.
We make such small margins that it sure FEELS as if we do not get paid.
Ken D.
digital divide
Mike W.
??
Ken D.
How you got in here - closing the digital divide
Angela S.
has entered the room
alex i.
the money is very important
Ken D.
How you got in here - closing the digital divide
Brett G.
In cell phone networks, we all pay for our link to the middle as well (though by the minute)
Ken D.
Oops
alex i.
the stupid network
Aleecia M.
Seems to me that Comcast cares a lot less about upswell of consumer anger than the FCC checking in and the threat of legislation. I do not understand why Brad would want to step away from having legislation as a very real and credible threat, it seems a highly useful tool.
alex i.
if you need the link:
alex i.
Chris S.
Comcast lied non stop until the EFF and AP caught them red handed.
Doc S.
local munis are used to dealing with either building their own utilities (roads, water, waste treatment) or engaging large external monopolies (gas, electric, cable TV, telephony). To them a utility is a Big Thing, not a set of protocols that allow anything to connect with anything. What they need to do is ease the installing of the physical stuff (including wireless stuff) that makes it happen.
Brett G.
The network is not stupid. Internet backbone routers are special purpose supercomputers.
Gregory M.
legislation is a double edge sword
Aleecia M.
And EPP++ plus, my gosh, actual reporting.
shep
Steve Crocker's point rephrased by me: The most important thing is to not need to ask permission of the network operator to deploy some new application on the net.
Doc S.
Perhaps a dumb question... Do we need all the routers?
alex i.
shep + + +
Brett G.
Comcast was inept at handling its PR. The fact is that it was managing its network quite reasonably.
Gregory M.
good question Doc
Brett G.
Doc: Durn right we do! Ask any network engineer what happens if you bridge instead of routing.
Chris S.
Brett: Thats because lawyers don't do good PR.
Aleecia M.
(How can a subjective judgment of reasonableness be a fact?)
Mar 31
9:55 AM
Brett G.
Comcast should have let their techies talk.
Brett G.
All you need is a reasonable definition of "reasonable."
Aleecia M.
Heh :-)
Matt T.
good voice with that
Doc S.
... and Comcast shouldn't have packed the Ames Courtroom with seat warmers, then weaseled about it. One of the dumbest moves, ever.
shep
already more than 2 seconds
Chris S.
The Bush administration sells the air too.
Gregory M.
70 seconds
shep
when are they going to start selling the acoustic spectrum?
Brett G.
Comcast CLAIMS that those people were line holders who were supposed to be replaced by their employees, who couldn't get into the hall to take over the seats. Dunno if that claim is correct or not.
alex i.
should be leased -- not sold --
JoePlotkin
amen roxanne!!
Ken D.
Talk to the RIAA, I'm sure it was worth it.
Greg E.
Or giving mining rights!
Iz W.
brett if you believe that I have a bridge to sell you
Gregory M.
Brett, puh-lease; and you bought that?
Shawn C.
that's why we need unlicensed, the wireless carriers now want another auction for TV white spaces
Iz W.
voxable!
Gregory M.
nooooo, not the IP question
Greg E.
Or allowing water bottlers taking ground water and spring water and not paying for it.
Chris S.
Yay one click
Darcy G.
has left the room
alex i.
yay patent challenges
Brett G.
I won't discount it. They might have been inept enough to think that the doors wouldn't be closed and they could have their people replace the line holders.
Michael B.
has entered the room
Chris S.
Reasonable network management remains, for now, novel.
shep
currently when the FCC issues (auctions, whatever) a license, it comes with two parts bundled together: (1) license to radiate, and (2) protection from interference. I wish these two would be completely seperated and thought about independently.
Gregory M.
not concerned about the patent issue itself only the rat hole we can fall into here...
Iz W.
anyone who has ever waited in line knows you need to replace the line holder BEFORE they go into the symphony, not once they are in their seats
Sascha M.
shep -- you might be interested in the 3650-3700MHz band.
Sascha M.
it basically creates this separation.
Brett G.
In a ticketed event, yes. But this wasn't ticketed.
Ken D.
I want to see a low power underlay of some of the choice spectrum, preferably the ones that are accessible by the common WiFi chipsets.
Jim R.
has left the room
Brett G.
The 3650 MHz band can't be used in many areas -- including right here!
Mar 31
10:00 AM
Ken D.
Shep, as long as you aren't in a blacked out area/
Iz W.
even if they did mean to "replace" them it's a dirty trick to pack the house with your side by hiring lineholders
Ken D.
Right
Chris S.
Verizon: short text messages don't qualify for common carriage.
Brett G.
Well, the PANEL (the most important seats) were packed by Comcast's detractors
JoePlotkin
unlicensed non-interfering use of spectrum -- look whats been done with 2.4GHz
Sascha M.
ken -- public interest groups attempted to get interference temperature passed (which would allow underlay below the noise floor). alas, the FCC refused to o.k. the idea.
Ken D.
I know.
Ken D.
I wish they would be more aware.
Brett G.
2.4 GHz is TOO unregulated - tragedy of the commons. We should see more 3650 MHz-like rules
Ken D.
Brett, I disagree.
Aleecia M.
How would you implement interference temperature in any robust way?
JoePlotkin
no Brett -- we just need more spectrum
alex i.
end of session one and I'm on page 5 of notes
Ken D.
This is a location dependent statement
Sascha M.
Brett -- yeah, the satellite uplinks are protected in the 3650-3700 band -- what we need is to open up additional bands (for WISPs, individuals, the general populace)
Mike W.
has left the room
scrawford
has left the room
Brett G.
That's like saying we need more lanes on the Beltway and all traffic problems will go away.
Brett G.
View paste
You need rules of the road!
AKMA
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Mar 31
10:10 AM
Izumi A.
has left the room
robb t.
has entered the room
matthew b.
has left the room
Michael W.
has left the room
Tony A.
has left the room
Chris S.
has left the room
Aleecia M.
has left the room
Iz W.
has left the room
Chris M.
has left the room
Ron S.
has left the room
Ken D.
has left the room
FACO
has left the room
JoePlotkin
has left the room
Tom M.
has left the room
Doc S.
has left the room
Paul H.
has left the room
Angela S.
has left the room
Michael B.
has left the room
Mar 31
10:15 AM
RJA
has left the room
Micah S.
has left the room
Mary G.
has left the room
stage
test
Matt T.
test
Mar 31
10:20 AM
Suw C.
has left the room
Greg E.
has left the room
Matt T.
tst
Mar 31
10:25 AM
robb t.
has left the room
Frank P.
has entered the room
Mar 31
10:30 AM
marc
has entered the room
Jim R.
has entered the room
marc
hello
Gregory M.
hello
Suw C.
has entered the room
Michael W.
has entered the room
Frank H.
has entered the room
alex i.
yay AFI Silver
Michael S.
has entered the room
robb t.
has entered the room
Tom M.
has entered the room
Chris S.
has entered the room
Michael B.
has entered the room
JoePlotkin
has entered the room
Mar 31
10:35 AM
Tony A.
has entered the room
Greg E.
has entered the room
alex i.
JoePlotkin
suggestion: more electrical outlets
alex i.
I brought a belkin
AKMA
has entered the room
Mike W.
has entered the room
Angela S.
has entered the room
alex i.
suggestion: ask everyone to bring a belkin
matthew b.
has entered the room
Brett G.
I just brought a low tech extension cord
robb t.
changed the rooms topic to Hello
Frank P.
I don't really blame Micah for 2000
Mike W.
world thumbfighting federation?
Steven C.
alex, ty for the belkin, btw
Doc S.
has entered the room
Chris M.
has entered the room
Brett G.
An arena is hitting an arena?
Tony A.
It was "Where's the Fiber?"
Brett G.
[CRUNCH]
Mike W.
that's a lot of hitting
Doc S.
Anybody know why AIM/iChat doesn't work?
DirkvanderW
has entered the room
alex i.
steven i think that's david's belkin
AKMA
It doesn't?
Matt T.
waiting to finish
alex i.
So AKMA, tell us about Obama's church
Chris S.
Doc -> ssh -D 12345 user@your.machine.harvard.edu, and proxy your AIM through that.
Brad T.
has entered the room
Mike W.
I'm a lawyer, so I don't answer the 'why' questions
AKMA
Supposed to be a pretty cool place
AKMA
We send students there to observer
Matt T.
aim works fine here
mbpdx
has entered the room
Steven C.
oh, thanks, david. we need a belkin mesh to reach the middle seats
AKMA
observe
Mike W.
ohhh no....
Steven C.
aim and y messenger both work fine
Mar 31
10:40 AM
Mike W.
chewwwing
Chris S.
"Google government" == the NSA logging our data forever?
Doc S.
thanks, chris. Never ssh'd to the Harvard one. good time to start...
Tom M.
Good to hear that, AKMA. I've wanted to attend a service there for a long time.
Brett G.
Obama has embraced "network neutrality" without stating which definition he advocates
AKMA
Our students always come back wild about it
Mike W.
no biting, no hitting Micah
Mike W.
Change Congress
Doc S.
Can you fix Congress the same way you fix a dog?
Tom M.
they'll never stop barking, doc.
Greg E.
Brett G.
The Bush administration already has
Mary G.
has entered the room
Paul H.
has entered the room
Mike W.
change-congress.org Larry Lessig's new effort
Tom M.
this is a great idea!
Greg E.
Proposed: Transparency in Government Act of 2008
Brett G.
Can you change Congress like you change a baby?
Greg E.
Matt T.
agreed
Greg E.
Matt T.
you change them both for the same reason
Will R.
has entered the room
Frank H.
What's the magic word?
Tom M.
like you change planes?
Mike W.
yes, but the diaper waste is toxic
Tom M.
underwear?
Matt T.
toxicity is relative. toxic to whom?
alex i.
transparency
Brett G.
Gack, cough, gagh
Chris S.
Transparency requirement #1: Make congress subject to FOIA
Mar 31
10:45 AM
Robert C.
has entered the room
alex i.
wihtout those "research fees"
matthew b.
requirement #0: make foia work right
Brett G.
Mom.... Apple pie.... Kissing babies....
Mike W.
you r a coder, or not
Doc S.
Doesn't the senator hack legal code?
Chris S.
Will Obama use email as president, or will he conduct all business in person, to avoid the papertrail (a la Bush)
Mike W.
"Obama: not a coda"
Tom M.
that was I who burst otu laughing at the 'not a coder' statement. How nice to know that.
alex i.
obama and youtube
Brett G.
D.C. al fine
Chris S.
And will Obama's whitehouse use email that is actually backed up?
Tom M.
I'd like something specific about policy from this fellow.
Brad T.
From now on, every election will be "the election where technology changed everything"
Iz W.
has entered the room
Tom M.
right...
Chris S.
We do at least have a congressman who is a coder now (http://www.cnet.com/8301-13739_1-9892829-46.html)
alex i.
View paste
A large majority of those voters voted in the presidential 
primary because of Barack Obama. Those new voters also overwhelmingly 
voted for Donna Edwards. The end result? Not only does Barack Obama win 
but his victory helps bring about the the first progressive primary 
victory against an incumbent U.S. House Democrat in a decade. Two 
movements. Working side by side.
Iz W.
funny brett
alex i.
Brian K.
has entered the room
Brett G.
I'd rather hear an INDEPENDENT analysis of Obama, not one from someone who is obviously biased
alex i.
yes, where's pat buchanan for that unbiased opinion
Iz W.
there's no such thing as an unbiased opinion
Brett G.
Or Hillary?
Jim R.
EBCDIC encoded
Matt T.
fair and balanced? anyone?
Mike W.
openess truth or accuracy
Tom M.
I don't think it's a question of "bias" but low information load in the language
alex i.
there's also no such thing as an unbiased pat buchanan
David I.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/technology/ is a pretty amazing document . . .
Mike W.
they are just kissin counsins
Brett G.
Maybe we should hear TEN analyses. But the one we should least trust is one from his staff, whose avowed goal is to get him elected
Mike W.
cousins
Tom M.
Leave out the digs at mccain - or anyone
Brett G.
IMHO, of course
Brad T.
Yes "let's just pick a random example"
Mar 31
10:50 AM
Mike W.
don't talk about real people
Chris S.
Will Obama make public his own Senate office's emails and meeting schedule for the last few years?
Iz W.
I like this too - compare to "the internet is a series of tubes" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd8qY6myrrE
Brad T.
The election is a series of youtubes.
Greg E.
Ellen says, "Put up PublicMarkup.org again..."
Iz W.
brett, I don't think there's anything wrong with hearing from someone on a campaign staff- nobody is pretending to be unbiased
Iz W.
you're hearing the official stance. it wasn't billed as an independent analysis.
Tom M.
Well, obviously, at least youtube is a series of tubes -- duh!
Chris S.
Well, the NSA already reads my mail. Why not congress's too?
Greg E.
Wow. That was an incredible statement about transparency Alex. But it is also a lot about efficiencies.
shep
only 535? why not 536?
Tom M.
he is fine, iz -- we just want more.
Greg E.
We've learned on the Internet that abundance is more economical than scarcity -- at least with information.
Iz W.
get up there tom, there's a spare mike for you
Brad T.
He's got a crush on Obama
robb t.
has left the room
Brett G.
View paste
Obama's page says:

"Barack Obama strongly supports the principle of network neutrality 
to preserve the benefits of open competition on the Internet. Users 
must be free to access content, to use applications, and to attach 
personal devices. They have a right to receive accurate and honest 
information about service plans. But these guarantees are not enough 
to prevent network providers from discriminating in ways that limit 
the freedom of expression on the Internet. Because most Americans only 
have a choice of only one or two broadband carriers, carriers are 
tempted to impose a toll charge on content and services, discriminating 
against websites that are unwilling to pay for equal treatment."

So, Obama is denying my existence as an independent ISP too!
Greg E.
It's scarcity that makes information EXPENSIVE to get. Abundance makes it information INEXPENSIVE to find and use.
Ellen M.
has entered the room
JoePlotkin
making congress communications public? Thats seems like a bad idea, IMHO
Chris S.
Maybe under Obama, we'll get a chief cybersecurity officer who has a bit of security experience (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080Ķ)
Mike W.
The US has no Ministry of Information Technology, no Office of the Information Society
alex i.
benklerized crowdsourced government monitoring
Greg E.
Obama sponsored the Federal Accountability and Transparency Act - which led to http://www.usaspending.gov/
Tom M.
You *want* a Ministry of IT?
Mike W.
yup
Ron S.
has entered the room
Iz W.
brett, these people know you exist - I think they are on your side, saying that the big companies have an unfair advantage over small isps like yours... is that not what they are saying? I'm curious why you don't agree.
Greg E.
Tom M.: Maybe a CIO?
shep
even if you created a fedgov CTO, they wouldn't have any actual power unless that power was taken away from the other bits of the bureaucracy, and will that ever happen?
Mar 31
10:55 AM
Brett G.
No, they are saying that people have only two choices: telco or cable. Again and again. As if they WISH it to be true so that they can be Davids and have Goliaths to attack.
Tom M.
that's very different, greg -- sure, why not (isn't there one already?)
alex i.
exactly shep. for example, who would force 12 govt agencies to use interopable computer systems?
Robert C.
There is a CIO: http://www.cio.gov/
Brett G.
Of course, they'll aim at the Goliaths and kill us.
Brad T.
I took my cat in to be fixed, and he came back broken.
shep
afaict, the fedgov has outsourced its CTO function to microsoft.
AKMA
I come from Chicago -- all the politicians there are fixed
Brett G.
"The lizards rule the people, and the people hate the lizards." -- Douglas Adams
Mike W.
and you can give your fixed dog 'Neuticles' Brilliant! Now back to our show...
Brad T.
You americans have no concept about what it means to actually remove your reps from office.
Tom M.
I grew up in the first Daley era in Chicago: "vote early and often" was our motto.
Frank H.
Even CIOs within agencies can be relatively powerless; real power is often within operational departments within agencies. CIO office is often just (relatively ineffectual) policy shop
Adam M.
There's actually a list of initiatives for getting federal agencies to use interoperable computer systems. See http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/egov/c-6-lob.html One is on financial management, one is on standardizing desktop PCs and servers, one is on standardizing networking. They should have started this years (decades) ago, but they have finally started.
FACO
has entered the room
Iz W.
but brett other independent ISPs recognize the unfair power bigco's are given and want a fair shake. I guess I still don't understand why you think these efforts will undercut your independent ISP business. Are you reliant on comcast or telcos in a way that things that limit their power will put you out of business?
alex i.
Brett G.
View paste
Odd, said Arthur, I thought you said it was a democracy?

I did, said Ford, It is.

So, said Arthur, hoping he wasnt sounding ridiculously obtuse, 
why dont the people get rid of the lizards?

It honestly doesnt occur to them, said Ford. Theyve all got the 
vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government theyve 
voted in more or less approximates to the government they want.

You mean they actually vote for the lizards?

Oh yes, said Ford with a shrug, of course.

But, said Arthur, going for the big one again, why?

Because if they didnt vote for a lizard, said Ford, the wrong 
lizard might get in.
Brad T.
As long as nobody drowned while the lifeguards were arguing with the parents.
Robert C.
Why should all the desktops be standardized? Doesnt that go against Quarterman's work on computer biodiversity?
Greg E.
View paste
Eight Principles of Open Government Data
http://resource.org/8_principles.html

Insanely Useful Sites
http://sunlightfoundation.com/resources

Programmable Government
http://programmable.com/government

Everyblock - hyperlocal content with govt data
http://everyblock.com

Matt T.
excellent, brett
Mike W.
OMB should be the default technical, operational, and policy office for the entire US Govt. That was never the intent and they do not have the depth of knowledge, experiance, and independence for that role
Mike W.
should NOT be, sorry
Mar 31
11:00 AM
Tom M.
As to using legislation to create transparency in government, never forget the real results of the Paperwork Reduction Act. (i.e. more paperwork)
Adam M.
Robert - Do you have a link for Quarterman's work? My understanding is that the desktop standardization program is that they're trying to establish average prices for typical configurations, so agencies will know if they're paying fair prices.
alex i.
Nicholas G.
has entered the room
Shawn C.
has left the room
Mike W.
it shows incredible understanding of how things work
Aleecia M.
has entered the room
Russ N.
has entered the room
Iz W.
stage, the link off freedom to connect website says the chat room is empty
Steven C.
there were several Internet-powered elections in Washington State in the mid- to late-1990s
shep
Iz W.
we're sending people away by accident, can we help them out with a better link?
Russ N.
#define people "Russ Nelson"
alex i.
election fatigue. . . have too many elections in order to encourage not working
Iz W.
she is a rocket scientist.
alex i.
oops not voting
Russ N.
Sorry I couldn't attend ... shout outs to everybody.
Iz W.
hi russ
Mar 31
11:05 AM
Doc S.
Hey, Russ. Too bad you're not here.
Doc S.
Physically, that is.
Russ N.
I know ... I'm a working man now.
Iz W.
agony
David I.
somebody please get Donna some faster Internet access!
Mike W.
the first Internet politician was probably Nick Licata http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Licata_%Ķ
Adam M.
Suggestion: Tell Donna about EVDO cards
Brad T.
We can help you crack your neighbour's WEP keys.
Matt T.
evdo cards?
AKMA
But she shouldn't have to pay more for EVDO
Russ N.
local village is wondering why they don't have broadband ... gonna attend the meeting and tell them "it's all in the open fiber, baby!"
Mike W.
Dewayne, that's an opportunity ;)
shep
are we currently sitting in MD's 4th congressional district? from the map at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland%27s_Ķ it is not obvious.
JoePlotkin
does she mean 18k ft from co?
Ken D.
has entered the room
Steven C.
VZ: "hey we serve at least one house in that zip code"
Nathaniel J.
has entered the room
Chris S.
Why doesn't Donna get a dish?
alex i.
she's talking about the kind of effort where there's "service" in the area but nobody can actually order it.
Ken D.
I'm guessing she means past the 18K foot mark
Ken D.
Still, Covad, any CLECs in the area?
Mike W.
those FCC stats don't mean anything unless its your house
alex i.
latency ~ 500 ms wit satellite
shep
someone teach her how to buy and install her own wireless link from her house (to wherever makes sense)
Doc S.
I think she does mean the 18-19k foot mark from the CO.
Ken D.
Not usuable for VoIP
JoePlotkin
I can do a prequal now (covad if someone knows her address.
Iz W.
there's a usability hurdle as well, it's not just technological
Frank P.
has left the room
David I.
Joe, hit anywho.com for montgomery cty MD
Mike W.
she's a rocket scientist, she can figure it out
alex i.
she wants to have what everyone else has
alex i.
her constituents
Iz W.
shep what you are talking about is not for the layperson - normal people don't just run around installing wireless routers wherever...she's not talking about HER
Doc S.
When we lived in Woodside, CA in the late 90s, Covad brought to our house what Verizon wouldn't, because we were 38k feet from a CO. It was slow "IDSL", but it worked.
Iz W.
waht she said. tech that works for everyone not just the tech elite
RJA
has entered the room
Ken D.
Not true, not everybody has broadband, ask the people in Bedford County PA.
Brad T.
I can't get technology that works for all of us.
shep
hmm, what's the right answer? legislation to require a CO with a DSLAM be located close enough to her (and everyone else's) house?
Greg E.
Brad T.: ?
Elvis
has entered the room
alex i.
and dailykos
Gregory M.
sorry, we're in a sound bite world
Mar 31
11:10 AM
Brad T.
Greg, I mean that a lot of our tech still doesn't work!
Paul H.
We are in the 4th Cong. District. I live less than 1 mile from here, and I voted for her. Although looking at that map, there's a little slice next to DC that's Van Hollen's district.
Chris S.
I do.
Chris S.
And I pay him
Brad T.
Pay no attention to the audience behind the curtain.
Chris S.
My employer can read my emails, and Obama is my employee.
Doc S.
If she lives under trees or in a condo, a dish might not be possible. Except for apps (e.g. voip) that require low latency, tho, it's not bad.
Ellen M.
Greg E.
Yeah. One size never works.
Mike W.
She also misses the point, IMHO
John S.
has entered the room
Iz W.
I would LOVE to read the president's emails. That should happen asap. Imagine the education!
Ken D.
Actually, it sounds like a good WISP opportunity.
Russ N.
Doc: I've heard that you really want a 2 meter dish. My experience was 1 meter and was not happy-making.
Brad T.
I want the president to use a spell checker first, though.
Mike W.
the point is that the open discussion and the evidence produced leads or points to the outcome
Ken D.
Put the T1 in her house and distribute by 900Mhz to her neighbors.
marc
I don't think W uses email
Ken D.
Brett, are you busy llater?
Iz W.
come on russ size isn't everything
Chris S.
We're not a gatekeeper, we only temporarily delay as part of reasonable network management
Russ N.
when it comes to antennas ... it is.
Jim R.
W thinks?
Ellen M.
Take a looj at this too: http://change-congress.org/
Brad T.
Hey, Ted Stevens uses it. He "got an internet" about it.
Mike W.
W doesn't need email. He talks directly to the Man
Russ N.
Ken D: that's what I do. I haul in to my house 4M via wifi and redistribute to my neighbors.
Ken D.
Or woman depending on your beliefs
Iz W.
in my opinion people should not have to figure out their tech for themselves, they should be able to buy a computer and turn it on and internet access should just work. can you all please set that up? thanks.
Suw C.
UK campaign from MySociety.org to get Parliament to free our bills: http://www.theyworkforyou.com/freeourbills/
AKMA
Better to mandate an open environment and require people to learn how to function there than to impose gatekeeping that inevitably tends to favor privilege
Chris S.
Usually at midnight, they're passing the patriot act
Iz W.
mke - he talks directly to god, haven't you heard him say so?
Mike W.
Change Congress is Larry Lessig's latest effort. I already joined... have you?
alex i.
mike w do you have a URL?
Mike W.
that's impossible!
Brett G.
I'm constantly busy. Why?
Chris S.
McCain: Kids, get your technology off my lawn.
Mike W.
change-congress.org
Ken D.
WISP opportunity
Matt T.
Ken D.
Business calls
Mar 31
11:15 AM
Brett G.
See me offline or via e-mail
Mike W.
and the telcos like Hillary the best!
Chris S.
9 out of 10 pretty tech lobbyists prefer McCain.
Ken D.
I am suggesting that you should speak with Donna Edwards. ;-)
alex i.
mccain -- natl bband to be provided by airbus
Brett G.
The Telcomm Act of 1996 was passed under Bill Clinton
Brett G.
and it paid off big for the Telcos
Gregory M.
Actually the candidate web sites of the two candidate's not represented here are both focused on "competitiveness" and "innovation" rather than talking about comprehensive "technology policy"
Chris S.
After that, Cisco sold the hardware for China's great firewall.
Doc S.
Brett G.
Actually, Donna should talk to Tom DeReggi of RapidDSL, which serves this area
Mike W.
Ken D.
That's right, he does, doesn't he.
Brett G.
Despite their name, they are a wireless ISP like us
alex i.
alex i.
Baller wants a natl bband strategy
Ken D.
Actualy, I'm not sure his network covers her area.
Bill S.
has left the room
mbpdx
has left the room
Brad T.
Can't you yanks figure this out. RED -> liberal, Blue -> conservative everywhere else in the world.
Mike W.
how does she check her investments?
Mike W.
Brad, it comes from the TV shows, not from the parties. Don't you realize the US has no real common culture, only the TV version
Mar 31
11:20 AM
Brad T.
That would be a great name for an interest group Micah. "The Strange Bedfellow Coalition"
Ken D.
I can has NASCAR?
Brad T.
Or a great name for a rock band.
Mike W.
TSBC
Chris S.
Only republican secret holds are respected.
Chris S.
Dodd's hold on telco immunity was ignored.
Gregory M.
digital democracy aside, I'd still like to hear more about the issues of "governance" as it applies to the Internet.
matthew b.
much like this chat room, right greg?
Chris S.
Getting rid of gatekeepers: Will the US finally stop killing .xxx?
Tom M.
http://www.strangebedfellows.org seems to be available.
Brad T.
No, I checked, it's taken.
Angela S.
Wonder if its easier to build bi-partisan support around broadband locally rather than nationally.
Mike W.
sharing info isn't the issue.... USING information transparently is the issue
Ellen M.
Sunlight monitors members schedules if they make them available. http://punchclockmap.sunlightprojects.org/
Mike W.
I really don't care who she meets with... I care who she relies on for her policy decisions
Brad T.
Glow is the new green.
shep
has left the room
Mike W.
they want to retire HER
Ellen M.
Will Donna take Lessig's pledge?
Chris S.
Can we get a webcam in her office?
David I.
what's lessig's pledge?
Brad T.
Lobbyists are people too -- Clinton
alex i.
Mar 31
11:25 AM
Iz W.
get with the progam donna, just take their money but don't put out for them!
Chris S.
Will she walk around with a webcasting micrphone, so we can hear the long conversations too?
Robert C.
What about ollie north's emails
Mike W.
Lessig's pledge
Mike W.
Tom M.
Do we also want to bug representatives' phones? Even with their knowledge?
Suw C.
we're having this discussion in the UK too
shep
has entered the room
Aleecia M.
If we insist on making all congress member's lives public, we will only have candidates who do not value privacy. That makes it much harder to get warrants and privacy rights. Transparency is great -- but privacy matters too.
alex i.
stoller: who you calling young?
Tom M.
Agreed.
Jim R.
what is the line between privacy and being a public figure?
shep
Aleecia +++
David I.
Aleecia, I disagree . . .
Mike W.
Donaa, she is even smarter the longer I listen to her
Tom M.
Yes, she is really great.
Tony A.
Just as I don't want anyone to read my personal email, I respect our representative's right to their privacy. What I want to have is transparency of public meetings.
Casey L.
has entered the room
David I.
I think people can make the distintion between publi trust and private privacy.
Chris S.
Reps, like any other employee, have no right to privacy for work related emails.
Gregory M.
At the end of the day, though, great as those tools are, they are ultimately about raising campaign money
Tony A.
We should do a back channel like this during all Senate hearings!
Greg E.
Jim R: Activities you do related to policy and representation are public.
shep
should a member of congress be able to meet with someone privately in their congressional office? I think the answer is yes.
Tony A.
Absolutely.
Chris S.
If Donna wants private communications, she can use Tor
Tom M.
Transparency is important, critical -- but there are limits to how one treats people.
Greg E.
Ton A.: Excellent idea.
Gregory M.
shep ++
Mike W.
Right Tony. Today, in the US legislation and policy development is mostly done behind closed doors... very different form most parliamentary systems
Suw C.
David I.
Shep, not while they're woriing for me they dont
alex i.
shep -- and corporations and lobbying groups are people too. . .
Ken D.
Or her Blackberry , a la Karl Rove.
David I.
working for me
marc
who actually has the time to follow all of this?
Adam M.
According to the interwebs, the only DSL service available for Donna at her home (8904 Glen Ln, Fort Washington, MD 20744) is Covad business service, starting at $120/month w/ a 2-year contract.
Gregory M.
corporations are legal fictions
Mar 31
11:30 AM
Greg E.
Shep: there's always a back-stage.
Mike W.
she started when she was in kindergarten
Tom M.
Please... if it's only *work-related* email, then cheaters will route around it via private email, etc.
matthew b.
on that note, here's another widget for you: http://readablelaws.org
alex i.
adam how'd you get her home address?
Ken D.
So, Donna can share her Covad connection with her neighbors.
shep
I want more transparency in govt, but I don't think it is reasonable to prohibit members of the lesgislator from having private meetings. Not sure what the right answer is here.
alex i.
no resale on covad biz
Ken D.
I wNo?
Ken D.
Would you tell?
shep
I think something that reveals which member of congress inserted which words in which piece of proposed legislation would be a good idea.
Ken D.
oops - sorrry
David I.
shep, they can go to their doctor privately, but if they meet with,e.g. a rep from NuclearPower, I want to know it!
Russ N.
Aleecia++ (privacy)
Doc S.
We can fix them too.
alex i.
and corporations still insist that they have every right that an individual has -- your right to free speech = Fox News right to lie. your right to free speech = industry right to lobby
Adam M.
Alex i: Her campaign website mentions she lives in Fort Washington. Whitepages.com gave me 2 addresses for Donna Edwards in Fort Washington. Googling her name and each address I found records of campaign contributions, so I figure that's her.
Brad T.
We're talking about the price of serial
Tony A.
David: The problem is that unless you have the transcript of the meeting, the knowledge that the meeting took place can be misconstrued.
alex i.
Elvis
empowered to eat cheetos and drink mountain dew too
Chris S.
Most empowered in the world?
David I.
transcript would be good too
Greg E.
Chris S.: Just what I was thinking...
David I.
how about an open webcam in the office?
Russ N.
David I: can they meet with a high priced prostitute privately?
David I.
Russ, No.
Sara W.
has entered the room
Chris S.
Most of congress has little credit
Matt T.
in state ones
Michael B.
has left the room
Tom M.
no they have to meet publicly w/ the hooker.
Brad T.
So it really is a webcam.
Elvis
cash
Iz W.
hi sara!
Adam M.
On the subject of privacy, I thought most elected officials need to report *who* they have meeting with, but not necessarily the subject of the meetings. But I believe these laws vary depending on state (or federal) and the position of the public official. I think elected officials should be able to have meetings in private, but I think if the purpose of the meeting relates to their job, who they meeting is with should be public.
shep
Let me put it this way.... I want to be able to go talk to my rep (or any other member of congress) in their office and have a private conversation with them.
Russ N.
not that Spitzer is a good example, since he prosecuted prostitutes.
Tony A.
As a generally "nice guy", I would be happy to meet with people who I violently disagree with, just to hear their POV, but that doesn't mean I am in bed with them. A simple trace of the fact that I talked with them implies more thatn it is worth.
alex i.
population without credit is greater if you include the noncitizens upon whom our economy depends
Sara W.
Hi Iz!
Ellen M.
Mar 31
11:35 AM
Brad T.
Don't go negative this early in the campaign.
Iz W.
no?
Ramesh L.
has entered the room
Chris S.
Clinton: We'll vanish your policy in the middle of the night
Iz W.
you mention it not as a gotcha?
Sara W.
based on a panicked phone call from joan or john citizen?
Gregory M.
My experience has been many (not all) Congressional staff's ability to listen (let alone reach out to us powerless) is proportional to how much they believe we are "important" to their agendas (often measured as amount of money donated).
Iz W.
oh gregory, what a cynic you are! that's not how it works!
Gregory M.
sure
Greg E.
Russ N.: Of course they can meet with a high priced prostitute privately. The question is the difference when people find out public.
Brad T.
We want to come to your BBQs
Adam M.
I was just trying to bridge the digital divide
Gregory M.
its the audience's example of the open and transparent nature of the Net
Chris S.
You live 30 mins from the NSA, and you're wondering about us know your address?
RJA
Sara W.
platitudinous emission alert!
Gregory M.
Chris ++
Sascha M.
F2C social at Donna's?
Elvis
has left the room
Robert C.
PK is not the average person. PK and Gigi Sohn is a very well connected organization. PK's successful blog doesnt mean a rant in the woods will be as successful.
Shawn C.
has entered the room
Doc S.
Donna, can you see the sky to the south? If so, satellite might be the way to to. Not too expensive.
shep
If we cobbled together a nice (probably wireless) link to the Internet for her and donated it to her, would that be legal?
Greg E.
FYI typers, there is a monitor in FRONT of speakers so they can see what is being written.
Sara W.
(that is, 'we're from the government, we are here to help. majorly platitudinous. pointing fingers gets old)
Sara W.
doesn't change much either
Ron S.
has left the room
JoePlotkin
Donna: Second line distance from CO2:3.36 miles (17720 feet)
Frank P.
has entered the room
Greg E.
That is SO true. Silicon Valley so fearless compared to East Coast.
Mike W.
Donna, you will be hooked up tonite. No worries.
Chris S.
Next...
Iz W.
oooh...
AKMA
"Hooked up" -- to the net, presumably
Tony A.
Citizens living abroad get *some* representation without taxation.
JoePlotkin
Donna: I can get ya T1 for $399/month; too far for dsl
David I.
Joe -- that's too far, she needs a fiber run.
Sara W.
AKMA: bad boy!
Iz W.
AKMA - not hooked up like on facebook, no
Brad T.
I hear you guys fought a war over taxation without representation. I can only conclude that you lost.
Greg E.
What's the government going to do TO me next?
Mike W.
Donna, we have your coordinantes
Doc S.
47 years ago, hate to say.
Sara W.
oh, we're adding prunes & bran to the equation too?
Gregory M.
from self reliance and accountability to entitlement... hmm
Chris S.
Other questioners - reasonable time limits please.
Mike W.
coordinates
alex i.
this is a WSJ talking point: lucky duckies making <$20K who don't have to pay taxes
alex i.
Brad T.
Pick none of 'em
Mar 31
11:40 AM
Frank P.
just get off my suburban woodside lawn!
Tony A.
Strange definition of luck.
Heath R.
I'm confblogging the sessions at http://mediadiet.net -- near-verbatim, real-time transcripts. Open to amendments, corrections, etc.
Brad T.
New bumper sticker: "I don't pay taxes and I _vote_"
Iz W.
it's because they can afford to hire high-priced accoutants
Greg E.
The people learned dependency on government from corporate America.
AKMA
Thanks, Heath -- you're amazing
shep
wealthy is not the same as high income
Chris S.
You spoke long enough dude.
Gregory M.
from self reliance and accountability to entitlements
alex i.
we went from Kennedy to Ronald Reagan -- ask what your lobbyist can do for you
Iz W.
that's why they don't pay taxes... either that or they got a special break from the government because they're a corporation who brought jobs to a region
Suw C.
@heath r: so am I - http://strange.corante.com :D
Mike W.
and your question is...?
Greg E.
Answer: Corporations started Lobbying...
Gregory M.
rat hole alert
Robert C.
Everyone pays taxes. There's income taxes, there's sales taxes, there's death taxes. Maybe some dont pay every tax - but everyone pays taxes.
matthew b.
well handled, micah
Brad T.
For you it hasn't
Mike W.
is he the evil one?
Jim R.
how did we get from Tear Down the Wall Mr Gorbachov to lets build a wall around Mexico in 25 years?
Brad T.
If congress isn't part of the solution it's part of the precipitate
shep
hmm, how should we disambiguate the two David Isenbergs?
Greg E.
The programs started for the benefit of the public turned into dependency programs by many -- from corporate to particular communities.
Russ N.
GregE++
Brad T.
Can you _have_ too many David Isenbergs?
Gregory M.
the disambiguation seems to be happening all on its own...
Russ N.
RobertC++
Greg E.
Just as Templeton was saying...
Matt T.
this david is a military analyst, i believe.
Greg E.
Brad T.: As long as they are free to compete without regulation.
Chris S.
Donna: Please make all CRS reports available to the public for free.
Gregory M.
and the question is.... ?
Mike W.
how did we get from "Beware the military-industrial complex..."(Ike) to the military-industrial complex is the only reason for the nation to exist (Cheney)?
Gregory M.
the question please...
mbpdx
has entered the room
Greg E.
As I was taught, Federal Government needed certain companies to focus on parts for military during WWII. Those companies retooled plants with the guarantee government would continue to buy parts. Hence a pattern was created.
Michael S.
has left the room
alex i.
in world war i we had an ad board and the media was controlled
Frank P.
make e-journals freely accessible... project muse, jstor
Mar 31
11:45 AM
Gregory M.
ah, now we're talking: information access...
marc
the golden age of kennedy: when minorities and women had no real rights. it was better then.
Ken D.
has left the room
Russ N.
marc: barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen. /me looks at Iz's feet.
Greg E.
Micah's telling the gist of the story. Of course there are some caveats...
Chris S.
Is is GPL?
Gregory M.
Greg E.
A government contractor was also involved that contributed to the data and it was through this contractor, Eagle Eye, that the deal was made.
Ellen M.
here's a whole list of pending transparency bills:
Ellen M.
Gregory M.
Greg E.
Chris S. That's a good question.
Russ N.
Suw: good typing at http://strange.corante.com/ Tnx.
Ellen M.
Greg E.
Chris S.: I don't think the source code for FedSpending.org is open sourced. I will look into it.
Gregory M.
Suw C.
also relevant is the Open Rights Group project, Consult, which allows people to comment on government consultation documents. Helps ORG write responses and get the discussion going. http://www.openrightsgroup.org/consult/
Mike W.
for links to some of the plans
Mar 31
11:50 AM
Mike W.
the facts are out there, Charles
Chris S.
Money
Mike W.
excellent point here
Gregory M.
chris S.+++
Will R.
has left the room
Nicholas G.
has left the room
Chris S.
How many bloggers and activists wrote about FISA? Yet, the senate still listened to the $$
Mike W.
the four legs of the table: research, advocacy, legislation, litigation
Suw C.
in the uk, what tends to encourage MPs to take notice is the idea that something might affect their chances of getting elected next time. being a normal person talking to their MP is really important.
Joshua A.
has entered the room
David I.
I wrote about fisa . . .for a while isen.blog was all-fisa-all-the-time
Gregory M.
signal to noise ratio is the penance of freedom to connect
Ellen M.
has left the room
Chris M.
Greg M +
Adam
has entered the room
Mike W.
"...the way is thoroughly known" Campbell
Andrew
has entered the room
Aleecia M.
has left the room
Suw C.
i think it's also important to talk about what politicians are doing *right* as well as wagging the fingure when they do things wrong.
Greg E.
How many people asked about Osama Bin Laden before 9/11?
Michael B.
has entered the room
David I.
Suw ++
Adam
if bloggers (including this room) are so powerful, how come US broadband is so poor? To the extent that a likely (hopefully...) congress person is using dial-up
Paul H.
I'm tweeting conference highlights at http://twitter.com/paulhyland - got a request to use the hashtag #f2c, you should too.
Mike W.
people get it!
Mar 31
11:55 AM
Brad T.
The President's National Security Briefings did.
Mar 31
11:55 AM
David I.
also #f2c2008
Chris S.
Kids aren't allowed to use Google anyway - (http://www.cnet.com/8301-13739_1-9902548-46.html), why do they need broadband in the school?
Gregory M.
thanks paul!
Mike W.
yeah, I want to have your baby!
Gregory M.
thanks Isen! (#f2c2008)
Iz W.
her dr might mis interpret even if she typed it right.
Mike W.
she is amazing...When she is elected, together with Al Franken, the Republlic will be restored
David I.
If you're blogging please use technorati tags f2c and f2c2008
Suw C.
and we also need to accept that sometimes, technological solutions are not the right ones. Online is not necessarily the best place for medical records, specially if the NHS is doing it.
Chris S.
Donna: If you want to learn about smart tech policy - go talk to Rep. Rick Boucher - who is awesome.
Mike W.
thanks Newt
Mike W.
yes
Russ N.
Suw++
Sara W.
DavidI: kids get in trouble for using wikipedia too.
Mike W.
thank you, you are a true patriot
Sara W.
probably even medline.
Chris S.
You can still give her cash
alex i.
actblue
Brad T.
I wish I could vote
Iz W.
just don't exepct her to accept it
Brad T.
They can already look at your email Tom
Mike W.
I think Donna meant trust must be earned
Heath R.
I'm reading Tom's email now
Doc S.
Woody Allen: "I flunked my metaphysics exam when I was caught looking into the soul of the kid next to me."
Iz W.
I thought roxanne represented the investment community - she is a writer?
Chris S.
For those gmail users in this room. Use SSL or anyone in the room (in addition to the NSA) can see your email. http://www.customizegoogle.com for the lazy
Brad T.
Can't get a gigabit over my wireless carriers
Greg E.
Roxanne +1
Mar 31
12:00 PM
Tom M.
yeah, heath -- but i sent you that email! :)
Doc S.
Roxanne is known for having called many futures before they happened. Listen closely.
Mike W.
it'll be fiber (don't the investor community or they will screw it up)
Brad T.
Can't get a gigabit from my wired ones either, though.
mbpdx
Affordable true broadband is what we need and can't get in most places in this country, Donna is a case in point
Greg E.
Brad T.: Isn't Google saying, "You will."
Mike W.
don't tell
Heath R.
Robert C.
An attempt to make fed agency action re Internet policy more transparent and promote involvement in the process has been Cybertelecom. It is Web 1.0 technology. If you dont know it, please check it out. http://www.cybertelecom.org/
Ron S.
has entered the room
alex i.
heath are you blogging this one?
Chris S.
Compulsory licenses.
alex i.
link?
Jim R.
has government become reactionary or can it look forward?
Chris S.
$5 a month on my DSL bill, and free P2P for all
Brad T.
We can rewrite the document so they are.
Gregory M.
intellectual property (not protection)
Heath R.
Iz W.
the corporations who gain from the protection, of course!
Brad T.
What about TCP/IP Laws?
Chris S.
And they give out tasty samples.
alex i.
alex i.
Bell South wants 20000 percent margins on itunes
Brad T.
Yes, hanging is more efficient.
Gregory M.
Um Alec, commoditzing capital?
shep
IPv4 or IPv6?
Iz W.
who else would write the laws? People who benefit from the free propagation of new technology and art?
Russ N.
BradT: yes, fiber is the solution, not wifi.
Gregory M.
gold plated = first amongst equals? Equal protection?
Chris S.
Carter pardoned all the kids who fled to Canada to get away from Vietnam. Will Obama pardon all the RIAA victims?
Suw C.
I really wish we had a politician like Obama in the UK. We're repeatedly fighting the same bad IP law 'reform' attempts. It's like whack-a-mole.
mbpdx
We need fiber and wireless. People like mobility.
RJA
has left the room
Ramesh L.
has left the room
Russ N.
mbpdx: true, but the fiber carries the Internet to the wireless base stations. Backhaul.
Brad T.
You don't think the world is 6,000 years old?
Jim R.
I don't care how you get it to me, I just want to use it.
Brad T.
The 2nd amendment defends his right to stick to his guns!
Gregory M.
Digital democracy is kewl, but still would like to experience a panel on the "governance" of the "Internet"
shep
...learn to talk to each other in a useful way.
Jim R.
has left the room
Mar 31
12:05 PM
mbpdx
has left the room
Heath R.
Lunchtime for those off site
alex i.
has left the room
Russ N.
tnx, Heath. Hi, BTW.
Mar 31
12:10 PM
judi
broadcast is off the air until shortly before 1pm. Conference begins again at 1pm
DirkvanderW
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Mar 31
12:15 PM
Chris R.
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Steven C.
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Adam M.
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Joe C.
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marc
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Suw C.
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Michael W.
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Frank H.
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Tom M.
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Chris S.
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JoePlotkin
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AKMA
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Angela S.
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matthew b.
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Chris M.
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Brad T.
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Robert C.
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Iz W.
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Nathaniel J.
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John S.
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shep
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Casey L.
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Adam
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Michael B.
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Ron S.
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judi
they'll be back...
matthew b.
has entered the room
Heath R.
has left the room
Tony A.
has left the room
Greg E.
has left the room
Mike W.
has left the room
FACO
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Joshua A.
has left the room
Mar 31
12:20 PM
Mary G.
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Paul H.
has left the room
Sara W.
has left the room
Mar 31
12:25 PM
Brett G.
Elvis has left the room
judi
View paste
Quicktime broadcast:
  rtsp://harmony.law.harvard.edu/f2c.sdp  (restarting at 1pm)
Guest access to the chat:
  https://f2c08.campfirenow.com/1de9e
Joe C.
has entered the room
Mar 31
12:35 PM
John B.
has entered the room
Mar 31
12:40 PM
Frank P.
has left the room
Mar 31
12:45 PM
Heath R.
has entered the room
Mar 31
12:50 PM
Paul H.
has entered the room
Michael W.
has entered the room
judi
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Mar 31
12:55 PM
Adam M.
has entered the room
Chris R.
has entered the room
John B.
Paper handouts? This is NOT a carbon-neutral presentation.
Aleecia M.
has entered the room
Robert C.
has entered the room
alex i.
has entered the room
Robin C.
has entered the room
Gregory M.
what carbon cost these t-shirts?
alex i.
wow campfire working very very well
alex i.
paper handouts = carbon sequestration
Suw C.
has entered the room
Mar 31
1:00 PM
Aleecia M.
(we now have recycling set up in the main room by lunch. sorry for those who had to toss out cans before)
Tony A.
has entered the room
AKMA
has entered the room
Casey L.
has entered the room
AKMA
Recycling bin for cans now available out front
Mike W.
has entered the room
Chris M.
has entered the room
Jonas B.
has entered the room
Jonas B.
Hello from Sweden
Brett G.
To recycle the handouts, add them to the campfire
FACO
has entered the room
Mar 31
1:05 PM
FACO
Hello from Amsterdam
Chris S.
has entered the room
Gregory M.
Welcoem FACO!
JoePlotkin
has entered the room
Iz W.
has entered the room
Gregory M.
welcoem = welcome
FACO
Thanks Gregory M.
marc
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Steven C.
has entered the room
Michael B.
has entered the room
Angela S.
has entered the room
Frank P.
has entered the room
Brad T.
has entered the room
mbpdx
has entered the room
Mar 31
1:10 PM
Gregory M.
Hey mbpdx... you in PDX, OR?
Mike W.
groetjes A'dam. Hallo Sverige
Mike W.
welcom allemaal
Mike W.
welkom
Brad T.
According to the Onion, the earthquake last year knocked Japan back into the 22nd century.
Nathaniel J.
has entered the room
FACO
Dank je wel Mike
Tom M.
has entered the room
Gregory M.
Dirk++
Joshua A.
has entered the room
Jonas B.
;-)
Geoff D.
has entered the room
judi
has entered the room
judi
View paste
Quicktime broadcast:
  rtsp://harmony.law.harvard.edu/f2c.sdp
Guest access to the chat:
  https://f2c08.campfirenow.com/1de9e
mbpdx
Gregory M -I am here in person.
Jim R.
has entered the room
Greg E.
has entered the room
Gregory M.
gotcha, thx
Frank H.
has entered the room
Gregory M.
has the Obama camp attempted to register "Yes, we can" yet as a TM?
Mar 31
1:15 PM
Francois L.
has left the room
matthew b.
has left the room
Mar 31
1:15 PM
Mike W.
however, Vodafone (UK) owns 49% of Verizon wireless
Mike W.
and KPN used to own much of Qwest
Mike W.
which was Qwest/KPN just a few years ago
Gregory M.
access to information is an essential building block of society
Brad T.
No, they can't
Mike W.
Detusche Telekom, of course, owns T-Mobile, formerly Voicestream
Mike W.
Deutsche
MichaelMaranda
has entered the room
Chris S.
With a telco, only the NSA can listen to my calls. When I use gmail, everyone on my wifi network can read my email.
Steven C.
Vodafone's stake is 45%
John B.
Discussion of F2C happening now in Second Life - http://slurl.com/secondlife/Capitol%20HillĶ
Brad T.
Took a long time for wireless telcos to encrypt, and still working on doing it well.
Mar 31
1:20 PM
Mike N.
has entered the room
Tony A.
Can you please export fast street repairs to the rest of the world.
Heath R.
If your laptop's sound is on, please put it on mute. Thanks!
Robert C.
Prohibition of interception of wifi: 47 CFR 15.9 Prohibition Against Eavesdropping; Electronic Communications Privacy Act. See http://www.cybertelecom.org/broadband/wifiĶ
Brad T.
Not to USA. After Katrina, the dutch showed up and said "we know a bit about floods and levees, can we help?" and the USA turned them away.
judi
Heath, what sound are you hearing? (not from broadcast?)
Brett G.
I am a wireless ISP, and I can tell you that most of our customers opt for more speed rather than encryption if given the choice. They don't see a great need for encryption because they see the entire Internet as insecure anyway (except perhaps for secure Web sites, which of course use encryption clear from their PCs to the destination).
Heath R.
No, local. Someone's laptop pings every time the chat progresses.
judi
thx
Richard B.
has entered the room
judi
we're listening for it
Gregory M.
ping coming from sent chat updates. Mac on stage?
Chris S.
Robert C. It's illegal for the telcos to participate in the NSA wiretapping program, and that hasn't stopped it from happening. The solution is encryption by default, not more laws.
Richard B.
Hello folks.
Brian K.
has left the room
Heath R.
I think it was the guy next to me. I just turned it off.
alex i.
re: Katrina. Bush wanted to spend $20 million and the dutch solution was $4 billion. I suppose the price of life can be estimated from this (what was Katrina death toll?) at about $1000
Mike W.
nee, Brad T. De Dutch are now in charge of emergency planning in NO. It has been outsourced to the Dutch.
Suw C.
Australians have a good term for that sort of broadband - "fraudband"
Brad T.
Glad they are now, but they were turned away after the disaster.
Mar 31
1:25 PM
Brett G.
Give me a break! DSL is also shared -- just one step up the pipe.
alex i.
I first heard "fraudband" here:
alex i.
Brett G.
And FIOS is shared as soon as you get to the switch in the neighborhood.
marc
i have turned my sound on mute. sorry
Richard B.
If you don't like sharing, the Internet ain't for you, Brad.
Brad T.
I don't like sharing?
Brett G.
Use it to heat a bus shelter.
Matt T.
are you still hearing the ping?
Heath R.
We cleared it up, thanks.
Steven C.
I think he meant Brett, not Brad
JoePlotkin
define "sharing"
Joshua A.
is it possible to swap two images on the screens? less need to project the thing many of us have already on our own screens
Brett G.
See the famous "Chaos on Laurel Lane" commercials from Pac Bell.
Richard B.
Whoever was falsely distinguishing DSL and cable when I came in. Brett is right, we all share most of the Interet.
Frank P.
Brad T.
Those commercials were very funny, but not exactly true.
Mike W.
David I.
Mike W.
Brad T.
With cable and wireless, the sharing is on the 1st mile, though. Past the 1st mile you can have fiber, and we can now put a tb over fiber.
Ken D.
has entered the room
Mike W.
neelie kroes
Mar 31
1:30 PM
Mike W.
Directorate of the Information Society
Gregory M.
Sie Germans are "the diesel of the European economy" quotable
David I.
I thought Kroes was competition officer of e.u.
Mike W.
Chris S.
Information Security tools (such as nmap, wireshark, etc) are illegal in Germany now, so if that was her job, she wouldn't be too busy.
Richard B.
Really illegal?
Brett G.
The Pac Bell commercial (very funny!) is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubc7zFSyEbg
Mike W.
Neelie Kroes is Competition Commissioner. Viviane Reding is InfoSoc Commissioner. Both Dutch
Brett G.
Maybe David I. will let us play it
FACO
Chris S.
shep
has entered the room
FACO
Brad T.
Wow, they protect confidentiality with DNA. Much stricter than here.
Tom M.
has left the room
Iz W.
funy brad
Chris S.
Amsterdam fiber: Past the 1Gb/s broadband to the left hand side.
Greg E.
I'm suddenly wondering about the usefulness of any network test of 40,000 people...
Iz W.
I was trying to get my head around that too
David I.
they have 1000 Mbit/s, we in this room have 5 Mbit/s down and 2.5 up
judi
Disclosure Not permitted outside Amsterdam
David I.
and our network is quite fast by US stds
judi
(dna)
Mar 31
1:35 PM
Francois L.
has entered the room
Greg E.
How much do I talk to people online in my immediate neighborhood? Don't I tend to use network most with a combination of people (some random) with whom I share interests?
JoePlotkin
David I: will his presentation be available download?
Iz W.
those europeans often put acronyms in a different order, like SIDA. So this is probably just disclosure Not agreement.
Tree S.
has entered the room
Iz W.
greg, you might share interests with people in your neighbrohood
Mike W.
sewers, is that anything like Waternet?
David I.
Joe, ask Dirk that
JoePlotkin
ok
Tree S.
hey, entered room
Jonas B.
but I am here ;.)
Frank P.
hi Tree
Tree S.
hey franklin
Iz W.
tree?
Tree S.
c'est moi
Frank P.
they're running at Laurel on Thursday
Tree S.
you goin
Tree S.
?
Frank P.
no... outa here on wednesday mrning
Tree S.
dirty euros
Tree S.
about those dirty euros
Richard B.
Government subsidized, the workers pay for your broadband.
Jim R.
how much is too much bsndwidth?
Frank P.
can't do trenching without dirtying your Euros
Mike W.
wait a minute, Dirk. this is impossible!!! We are not hearing this! Only the private sector can do this, and it must be done with wireless!
Tree S.
produced by former prisoners
alex i.
prisoners in china?
Mike W.
Tom Tom
Mar 31
1:40 PM
alex i.
dirk dirk
Frank P.
farms in berkeley?
Mike W.
But wait Dirk, TomTom is impossible. Only Garmin produces GPS
Brad T.
Moooooo
Tree S.
i think i have this genetic thing going on where i can't really hear anything he's saying and i'm looking over my shoulders for the dogs
Richard B.
I want my MTV.
Gregory M.
who let the dogs out?
Tree S.
sorry. just thinking outloud.
mbpdx
Mike W.
has left the room
Mike W.
has entered the room
alex i.
telegraph -- 1 bps
Frank P.
Terry Pratchett wrote about that
Tree S.
looks like half a swastika to me
Mike W.
Admiral Nelson also used this system
shep
Adam M.
alex i.
pratchett book: going postal
Frank P.
right!
Suw C.
wow, i had no idea that clacks towers really existed.
Francois L.
Tree S.
yeah, i gotta couple
alex i.
gordon cook speaking
Tony A.
Also in Monsterous Regmiment
Frank H.
has left the room
shep
which book?
AKMA
Carlotta?
Suw C.
reading Monstrous Regiment right now w. my husband
Tree S.
btw, i don't see any broads on this board
FACO
Carlotta Perez
Frank P.
whadabout Suw?
alex i.
Mar 31
1:45 PM
alex i.
difference between GDP in $ terms and PPP
Tree S.
monstrous regiment of women?
FACO
Tony A.
He explains Group IV fax in great detail, without any technical jargon. I read it at the same time I read Digital Fortress, where Dan Brown got no details about communications and cryptography right.
Tree S.
that book?
Tony A.
Yes.
Ken D.
has left the room
alex i.
monstrous regiment is a play on that book but terry pratchett is cool and writes about the history of misogyny (sp?)
Gregory M.
"operating capital" is "working capital" and is nothing but a variation of financial capital
alex i.
excess of financial capital: selling Bear Stearns cheap to save your job and prevent a lawsuit
shep
Tom M.
Tom M.
has entered the room
Brad T.
Tom M.
the above link is to the chapter in her book on financial capital vs. production capital
Tree S.
no more pp. yoko.
Brett G.
It's a capital offense.
Tree S.
if he says "carbon footprint" i'm outta here
Gregory M.
No worries; no more death by .PPT
Chris M.
But capital that's invested in productive capacity is different (though by other nomenclature) from capital that's engaged in trading financial assets
alex i.
Russ N.
Carbon Footprint.
Matt T.
size 13?
Sean D.
has entered the room
Tree S.
yeti
Brett G.
I'm getting tired of mopping up all of those sooty black carbon footprints.
Tree S.
you try soaking you try scrubbing
AKMA
PP varies by the presenter; Doc and Larry Lessig use it superbly
Iz W.
tree, of all organic beings you should care most about carbon footprints
shep
Confusion Footprint
Tony A.
Did someone say carbon footprint? http://www.joyoftech.com/joyoftech/joyarchĶ
Mar 31
1:50 PM
alex i.
yeah, BT, there were french military victories in the time of napoleon, otoh, napoleon also said (says Civ IV) "You would make a ship sail against the winds and currents by lighting a bon-fire under her deck? I have no time for such nonsense." - Napoleon, on Robert Fulton's Steamship
Tree S.
lessig is going to have a difficult time topping that nlp, wait for it, letter thing he has going on...
Paul H.
Tree S.
big in japan
Doc S.
Powerpoint is an instrument. The problem is, most people play it only to themselves, using it for speakers notes. You can make it rock. From way back: http://searls.com/present.html
DirkvanderW
has entered the room
Brett G.
I don't use PowerPoint. I use HTML.
Iz W.
has left the room
Tree S.
link on
Iz W.
has entered the room
Iz W.
hello world
Tree S.
yeah, thanks for holding that up
Iz W.
unfortunate name
alex i.
doc, just because you can make PP rock doesn't mean that others should try!
shep
Suw C.
you know, I think I could just about cope with 80mb. i mean, it'd be a sacrifice, but I could deal with it.
Tree S.
randy bush?
Tree S.
not so good down the crown.
JoePlotkin
funny Iz
alex i.
tree calling the bush a bush
Chris S.
Forget Japan. AT&T offers $10 per month DSL, at uber-fast 768kbps broadband speeds (only for first time AT&T customers in the south).
shep
(he mentioned Randy in his talk)
Chris S.
We lead the world in cheap broadband.
DirkvanderW
I just have 32 down, 33 up. terrible slow...
Tree S.
if i fall in this chat room will anyone hear?
Mar 31
1:55 PM
Tree S.
braggart
Jim R.
must be a lot of poor lawyers in Japan
judi
maybe they're doing something interesting on the net?
Tree S.
hold it up so we can see it
judi
no tree, chat doesn't have sound. We'd have to be viewing the video to hear you.
Tree S.
good answer
Tree S.
was mackin on his zen vibe. sort of a koan. all my relations. etc.
mbpdx
has left the room
alex i.
has left the room
Richard B.
Japan blocks VoIP and will soon filter for illegal file sharing. Their 100 Mb/s second is also over 90% loaded.
matthew b.
has entered the room
Tom M.
but no one knows...
alex i.
has entered the room
Richard B.
They know, any network that heavily loaded is slow.
Mar 31
2:00 PM
Tony A.
has left the room
Chris S.
has left the room
Tony A.
has entered the room
Angela S.
please define "over 90% loaded"
Doc S.
testing...
Chris S.
has entered the room
Tree S.
sure
Richard B.
Comcast will soon have 130 Mb/s downstream and 100 Mb/s upstream. Shared.
Gregory M.
test (ignore)
Richard B.
Network load is calculated by measuring traffic vs. capacity.
Richard B.
Packet networks need excess capacity - excess over demand - to have low delay.
Tree S.
i need visuals to understand numbers
Sara W.
has entered the room
Angela S.
Thank you Richard
Richard B.
Brett has a slide from Japan on who uses the bandwidth. It's mainly used for theft.
Richard B.
The speaker said his networks are 90% loaded as well. That's not healthy.
Mar 31
2:05 PM
Jonas B.
on peek load 50 - 60% normal
Richard B.
50-60% would be better.
Gregory M.
has left the room
Brett G.
has left the room
Sascha M.
has left the room
Paul B.
has left the room
Doc S.
has left the room
Joe C.
has left the room
Steven C.
has left the room
Michael B.
has left the room
Frank P.
has left the room
Jonas B.
In Sweden we upgrade when we have 70% load for some time
Joshua A.
has left the room
shep
has left the room
DirkvanderW
has left the room
Richard B.
Who's this speaker?
Gregory M.
has entered the room
Jonas B.
when we get 70% we add + 100%
Jim R.
Speaker is Tim Nulty I think.
judi
has entered the room
judi
confirming: Tim Nulte
Tree S.
"ubiquitous" count: 3
judi
Brett: can you post your slide that Richard was referring to?
judi
(see upload file on the right)
Mar 31
2:10 PM
judi
if anyone here is watching youtube, please stop
stage
has left the room
David I.
has left the room
Ryan M.
has left the room
Shawn C.
has left the room
John B.
has left the room
Michael W.
has left the room
Chris R.
has left the room
Aleecia M.
has left the room
Casey L.
has left the room
Chris M.
has left the room
FACO
has left the room
marc
has left the room
Brad T.
has left the room
judi
has left the room
Iz W.
has left the room
matthew b.
has left the room
Tony A.
has left the room
Jim R.
feeling like I am only one left in the room.
Jonas B.
I am here ;.)
matthew b.
has entered the room
Chris R.
has entered the room
Sean D.
has left the room
Robert C.
Broadband in the room appears to have died
Sara W.
has left the room
Jim R.
jonas b (EVDO?)
Mar 31
2:15 PM
Jonas B.
You need the gigabit...
Mar 31
2:15 PM
Michael W.
has entered the room
FACO
has entered the room
Aaron S.
has left the room
Heath R.
has left the room
Paul H.
has left the room
Suw C.
has left the room
Mike W.
has left the room
Heath R.
has entered the room
Jim R.
the conference is on pause while we debug the wifi issue.
Tree S.
deep packet inspection. he will lie awake thinking that he said that.
JoePlotkin
has left the room
Tree S.
is anyone on this board that is in that room?
Richard B.
Those in the room were kicked out when their WiFi died.
Russ N.
Oh dear. WiFi at conferences can be so iffy.
Tree S.
is anyone on this board that is NOT in that room?
Adam M.
The wiFi seems to have crapped out, but it's being worked on. (I'm in the room, but I'm using my EVDO phone; yay for open devices.)
Mar 31
2:20 PM
John B.
has entered the room
Gregory M.
has left the room
Matt T.
has left the room
Gregory M.
has entered the room
Robin C.
has left the room
AKMA
has left the room
Angela S.
has left the room
Nathaniel J.
has left the room
Francois L.
has left the room
alex i.
has left the room
Greg E.
Really enjoying this person on stage. Glad he decided to come instead of the geek.
Gregory M.
back on my AT&T edge service
judi
in-conf screen just went offline (temporarily)
judi
looking into bandwidth issues here
Gregory M.
Please advise when wireless returns
Michael B.
has entered the room
Jonas B.
Great person, fiberfighter
Suw C.
has entered the room
Gregory M.
frustrating if it happens that someone at the Theatre spoiled it by being a bandwidth hog
Mar 31
2:25 PM
judi
yeah, like the video broadcaster and chat forums...
judi
heh
Gregory M.
be wary the beard
Richard B.
They need a little traffic shapring and policing, apparently. Stupid networks never work.
matthew b.
has left the room
Gregory M.
so much for presuming people will act reasonably. I fear this is an example of the underbelly of entitlement...
Matt T.
has entered the room
Tree S.
mayor of lafayette is owner of a pet shop. who knew?
judi
if people knew (which they do now), they will act in their best interest, no?
Brad T.
has entered the room
Adam M.
or is it their beast's interest?
judi
also, more people in audience this afternoon than this morning
Richard B.
People act in their own best interests, not in mine.
Michael W.
has left the room
FACO
has left the room
Heath R.
has left the room
Gregory M.
Perhaps Judi, but my understanding is David order sufficient bandwidth
Gregory M.
order = ordered
judi
sufficiently delivered? one wonders...
Richard B.
How much is enough?
Gregory M.
Easy to pass the buck ;-)
Gregory M.
Seriously, do we anticipate a return of the network and the video screen in the theatre?
judi
really? I'm collecting.
Jonas B.
hi is funny
judi
yes we do, momentarily.
Mar 31
2:30 PM
judi
The chat for broadcast window is running in front of some diagnostic tools that need to be accessed
Mar 31
2:30 PM
Tom M.
has left the room
Jonas B.
he is funny and needed
Chris R.
has left the room
judi
broadcast chat will be back as soon as possible
Gregory M.
no: pass the buck = easy to claim SEP ("Someone Elses Problem") and I presume a portion of the $450 I shelled out *did* help defray connectivity costs...
Jim R.
I like that more than peer to peer. Citizen to Citizen
Richard B.
Who's this speaker dude?
Chris R.
has entered the room
Adam M.
If the previous speaker was Tim Nulty, this should be John St. Julien
judi
speaker is John, yes
John B.
has left the room
Jim R.
John St. Julien is speaker
Gregory M.
FACO
has entered the room
Tree S.
ubiquitous count: 4
Gregory M.
we're back on screen in theatre (all remote audience)
JoePlotkin
has entered the room
Francois L.
has entered the room
AKMA
has entered the room
Chris S.
Who let Comcast run the wifi network?
Heath R.
has entered the room
Chris M.
has entered the room
alex i.
has entered the room
Michael W.
has entered the room
judi
in-conf chat is back
Heath R.
Sorry; I was playing WoW
JoePlotkin
we're back!
alex i.
i wonder if the bwidth issue was windows update
marc
has entered the room
Heath R.
(Just kidding)
Tom M.
has entered the room
Brad T.
We're back, baby
JoePlotkin
something was swamping LAN
AKMA
Heath, which server do you play on?
Nathaniel J.
has entered the room
Mike W.
has entered the room
Tree S.
"packet-guy" respectfully disagrees with lafayette guy.
Chris S.
If anyone just turned off their laptop (and was thus the offending machine), leave it off.
Tom M.
we have a lot of sarcasm-catching-up to do.
Mar 31
2:35 PM
Tree S.
have you tried turning your machine off and on?
Tree S.
is the button on the side glowing?
Jim R.
format c: /s
Gregory M.
funny, my firewall *did* just ask permission to let WinUpdate call home...
Tree S.
IT CROWD moment.
Tree S.
is Moss not in the room?
MichaelMaranda
Hi Izumi!
Tree S.
ng = next generation network. they should give that acronym a re-think.
Geoff D.
has left the room
Suw C.
has left the room
Jonas B.
Should be TNG = startrek
Tree S.
sorry, NGN. i heard NG.
Mar 31
2:40 PM
judi
the problem on the speaker's computer is that it's recognizing the outside display but not sending signal to it
Jonas B.
restart or change PC?
alex i.
huge queue
Richard B.
Portland's Muni net is going nowhere fast
Andrew
has left the room
Jim R.
seems to me that the solution must be local. National solutions take too much momentum.
tj
has entered the room
Angela S.
has entered the room
Brett G.
has entered the room
tj
Hello
tj
has left the room
judi
Hi TJ
Mar 31
2:45 PM
Greg E.
has left the room
Michael B.
has left the room
Matt T.
has left the room
Chris R.
has left the room
JoePlotkin
has left the room
Heath R.
has left the room
Chris M.
has left the room
Michael W.
has left the room
marc
has left the room
Nathaniel J.
has left the room
Mike W.
has left the room
Jim R.
fear, uncertainty, and doubt. You could run a national campaign on that.
Izumi A.
has entered the room
MichaelMaranda
:)
Joe C.
has entered the room
Steven C.
has entered the room
Mar 31
2:50 PM
Richard B.
It's hard to manage a network. Call Comcast.
Adam M.
has left the room
alex i.
has left the room
RJA
has entered the room
Mar 31
2:55 PM
Brett G.
has left the room
Chris S.
has left the room
AKMA
has left the room
Izumi A.
has left the room
Frank H.
has entered the room
judi
Re: wireless in the room, we've got 3 computers using up all our bandwidth. We're on your tails...
judi
wireless will be back asap.
Mar 31
3:00 PM
Jim R.
has left the room
Tom M.
has left the room
Frank P.
has entered the room
Richard B.
has left the room
FACO
has left the room
Angela S.
has left the room
Steven C.
has left the room
Mar 31
3:05 PM
Brad T.
has left the room
Joe C.
has left the room
Frank P.
has left the room
Suw C.
has entered the room
Mar 31
3:10 PM
Russ N.
Nobody loves us. Everybody hates us. We think we'll go eat worms.
Gregory M.
Attention EVERYONE in the THEATRE: please check your IP address and verify if you are 209.190.200.27 ...if so see us at STAGE ASAP!
Michael W.
has entered the room
Suw C.
phew, not me.
Gregory M.
For WIN users: start a CMD window and type ipconfig /all
Russ N.
I blame Suw. Her typing is probably consuming all the bandwidth, hehe.
Gregory M.
For Linux users, if you don't know already... um, er, see us.
Michael W.
I'm .28, not .27 phew
RJA
has left the room
Mar 31
3:15 PM
Russ N.
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and atomic weapons. Not IP addressing.
Suw C.
@russ: had to put the blogging on hold in the last session. head is clogged with cold and brain struggling to function. :(
Tree S.
i am not in the room. i am in france and the live video is down.
Suw C.
@tree: it's a break atm
Gregory M.
Sorry Tree, we're on that too
Robert C.
has left the room
Russ N.
Suw: oh dear. Well, I appreciate the blogging you did do ... get better soon!
Gregory M.
Live video is suspended until we reconvene
Jim R.
has entered the room
Tree S.
i was enjoying that guitarist...
Jim R.
there is nothing to see here please move along
Joe C.
has entered the room
Gregory M.
For MAC users: go to ABout This MAc; then More Info, then Network
Russ N.
Heath Row's blog is at http://mediadiet.net/ , and he's got the Open Fiber talk up already.
Fred C.
has entered the room
Suw C.
@russ: i'll get back to it soon as i can make my brain to behave.
Gregory M.
Again, its 209.190.200.2
Gregory M.
sorry
Mar 31
3:20 PM
Gregory M.
that's 209.190.200.27
Russ N.
Interesting that East Central Vermont has no roads with fewer than 12 houses to the mile,
Gregory M.
and the address seems to have suspended whatever activity that was flooding the net...
Russ N.
cuz I counted the houses on mine, and we have slightly less than 10 houses to the mile.
matthew b.
has entered the room
Gregory M.
thanks to whoever is at .27 for stopping the packet flooding :-)
matthew b.
or shutting down and acquiring a new ip :-)
Frank H.
has left the room
Russ N.
I'm thinking seriously of creating my own ROW through the woods at the back of people's property, and dragging fiber through the woods. Just lay it on the ground. Bury it whenever I cross a woods road.
Frank P.
has entered the room
AKMA
has entered the room
Frank P.
hello
Russ N.
Fiber isn't that expensive to purchase if you want a reasonable number of strands, and tight pack fiber is quite durable.
AKMA
209.190.200.82 here
Russ N.
Mr. Paynter I presume?
Michael B.
has entered the room
Mar 31
3:25 PM
Suw C.
Frank, where are you?
John B.
has entered the room
Tree S.
sorry if this is a stupid question, but who was the gentleman from vermont? i enjoyed listening to him.
Gregory M.
its back, and its not .27's entire fault
Michael B.
Russ N. are you in DC or VT?
Russ N.
Tim Nulty, Tree.
Danny O.
has entered the room
Russ N.
Michael, northern New York. Think "cows and trees", not "skyscrapers"
Tree S.
thanks. and thanks tim nulty. great stuff.
Gregory M.
we're going to track it, hang in there
Russ N.
Michael: Iz can describe it well enough ... she has a camp up here, on Saranac Lake.
Suw C.
cows and trees++
Sascha M.
has entered the room
Michael B.
Oh, OK. I do wireless in central VT (one town north of Nulty's project)
David I.
has entered the room
Frank P.
suw over your left shoulder
Frank P.
hi russ!
Frank H.
has entered the room
Russ N.
Michael: my wifi comes 3.5 miles from a construction company whose building I happen to see from my 3rd floor. Got a colocated cable modem, OpenWRT, and 24dbI dish.
Brad T.
has entered the room
Brad T.
We should just go to IRC for this chat...
Russ N.
IRC++
Russ N.
Michael: dish is mounted on a mast strapped to a chimney, and high winds rotated their chimney.
Frank P.
russ, are you in the room?
Russ N.
Frank P: alas, no, I had to stay home and work.
Michael B.
the chimney or the dish?
Heath R.
has entered the room
Mar 31
3:30 PM
Frank P.
{virtual wave to russ}
Brad T.
At least it would be more tolerant of faliures
Brad T.
How about freenode#f2c?
Russ N.
Michael: dish connected to chimney, so both. I'll be relocating the dish off the chimney when it gets warmer, and, gulp, buying them a new chimney.
Michael B.
great story. I'll be sure to tell my installers.
Russ N.
But .... I've designed a secure way to raise a 20 to 30' pole from the ground, securing it to the side of the building, AND being able to rotate it from the ground.
Russ N.
Sketches on request. Google for "russ".
FACO
has entered the room
alex i.
has entered the room
Michael B.
thnx Russ, always open to new ones
Russ N.
Michael: gravity is your friend, just like this guy says: http://youtube.com/watch?v=lRRDzFROMx0 (but don't watch it now on F2C bandwidth!!)
alex i.
Mar 31
3:35 PM
Gregory M.
Update: we're closer to solving issue: looks like possible bad wireless AP
Tom M.
has entered the room
alex i.
It later turned out that SBC spent $192,324 on defeating the ballot measure, while Comcast spent $89,740. Fiber for our Future, the community group pushing the initiative, spent $4,325.
Micah S.
has entered the room
Fred C.
has left the room
Doc S.
has entered the room
Joshua A.
has entered the room
Russ N.
The thing that I don't understand is why the incumbents fight municipal fiber.
Brad T.
Titanic hit by an Isenberg
Doc S.
This works again?
Brett G.
has entered the room
alex i.
"why innovate when you can litigate?"
Russ N.
They ought to just shrug, say "okay, in THIS town we compete by selling our services on their fiber", move on, and spend there capital elsewhere.
JoePlotkin
has entered the room
Brad T.
Yes, though I'm pushing we switch to irc://freenode#f2c
Aleecia M.
has entered the room
Russ N.
alex, but all these shenanigans cost money. It's not like there's a shortage of places to run ftth.
Brad T.
What were the first 6 digits of those macs?
Tony A.
has entered the room
alex i.
but if one suceeds people might think the telcablecos should do it
Chris S.
has entered the room
Doc S.
Murphy runs all networks.
Russ N.
one of these days I want to establish a hedge fund which buys up stupid companies, makes them smart, and sells them again.
Mike W.
has entered the room
Ken D.
has entered the room
Chris S.
So we need TSA on our network?
Brad T.
He hasn't seen the movies lately.
JoePlotkin
the freedom shit must end!!
alex i.
Russ: most companies buy smart companies, make them stupid, and then sell
Aleecia M.
if bad acting were illegal, L.A. would go bankrupt
judi
yeah, where comcast runs the Fast Pass
Doc S.
They look like they're gelding a cable.
Frank P.
fixin' the dawg
DirkvanderW
has entered the room
Brett G.
has left the room
Chris S.
"It's a Mac"
Matt T.
has entered the room
Adam
has entered the room
Mar 31
3:40 PM
Frank P.
Gilding the lily?
Mike W.
It's a Mac, so I don't have to think
Tree S.
gelding the lily.
Matt T.
.
Paul H.
has entered the room
Russ N.
alex i: examples abound, yes. But there's trillions and trillions of dollars of value available to anybody who can fix big business.
Brett G.
has entered the room
marc
has entered the room
Chris M.
has entered the room
Steven C.
has entered the room
marc
hello
Frank P.
rich and robust
Ken D.
Try convincing big business they need to be fixed.
alex i.
google's plan: take the apps from the cellcos
Adam M.
has entered the room
Brad T.
This is not the Android we're looking for. You can go about your business. Move along.
alex i.
use the force, brad
Russ N.
Ken D: that's why you have to buy a controlling interest. Plus, that's how you make money from doing it.
Brad T.
Once you lay down the dark fiber, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you it will.
Ken D.
Ah, well, now for the investment community to kick in.
Chris S.
The FCC makes big problems for any 802.11 (wifi) chipset with open source drivers. Will Android devices have open source wifi, or will they use binary blobs?
Paul H.
Brad T.
The radio drivers remain closed.
Chris R.
has entered the room
Chris S.
Boooo
Mike W.
I want open androids. Those last androids you sold me were all closed. I had to terminate them.
Brett G.
has left the room
Brett G.
has entered the room
Russ N.
BradT++ (dark fiber)
Iz W.
has entered the room
Brett G.
Municipalities should not try to be ISPs. All sorts of First Amendment issues with that. But they could deploy truly open infrastructure on which providers can deliver -- just as municipalities build roads on which you can have lots of private delivery trucks.
Mike W.
He is describing basically what Symbian is today.
Russ N.
BrettG++ (am I actually AGREEING with Brett?? :)
Steven C.
In Brad's case, it's Darth Fiber
Brad T.
The internet is not a truck!
Brad T.
--Ted Stevens
Brett G.
Russ Nelson agreeing with me? This has to be a first.
JoePlotkin
its a series of tubes . . .
Frank P.
no place on the interwebs to affix the license
Chris S.
Steve jobs says that releasing Firefox and Skype for the iPhone will result in dead puppies. Restricted SDKs are good for America.
shep
has entered the room
AKMA
And the F2C tubes were tied
Mar 31
3:45 PM
alex i.
it's a bicycle
Brett G.
Most of my customers just want to get on the InterWebMailSomeThingie.
Brad T.
Based on the porn I've seen, it's a series of pubes.
Mike W.
There are loads of municipal telcos and there have been since the invention of the phone. No 1st Amend issues here. Move along.
Tree S.
that a fish needs
Russ N.
that "series of tubes" crap must have been how somebody explained Internet routing to him, and all he remembered was "series of tubes"
Brett G.
But they want it really bad.
Ken D.
Darn, and all this time I thought it was a truck.
Russ N.
and they want it really fast.
alex i.
anyone pay $ for apps on cell phone? this would eliminate that cash but I don't know how big it is. android
Brad T.
I can has bandwidth?
Chris S.
Will Google store the video of my cat as long as it keeps my search records?
alex i.
google knows the name of your cat
Nathaniel J.
has entered the room
Frank P.
that's the NSA's responsibility
Brett G.
And they always ask, "How fast is it?" even though of course I can only control the speed of our end and not the other end.
Chris S.
Google will mask one of the cat's paws after 18 months.
Ken D.
No, but there may be money in selling your name to someone that targets yarn selling to cats.
Russ N.
FrankP: THEY KNOW YOU SAID THAT! IT'S GOING IN YOUR PERMANENT RECORD!
Frank P.
herrding cats is one thing, controlling the speed is something else
Russ N.
When is the next squeaker?
Brett G.
We're gonna need a litterbox.
Iz W.
shameless client promotion: electric sheep on android http://draves.org/blog/archives/000549.html
Frank P.
every android's dream
Russ N.
Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?
alex i.
this is all cool stuff but I feel I know most of it already
Tree S.
she ( http://cubo.cc/ ) will help lay cable.
alex i.
of course, google gets lots of press
Chris S.
The solution is less carrier competition, right? Far less Q/A required.
Aleecia M.
Yay electric sheep! Very pretty stuff.
judi
now see here: http://freedom-to-connect.net/ (the schedule)
Robert C.
has entered the room
JoePlotkin
Android rage?
Iz W.
Android dreams of Electric Sheep.
Russ N.
tnx, judi
Brad T.
Mike W.
what kind of platform will be necessary to operate the Android OS, one wonders?
Brett G.
Something with lots of room for batteries.
Russ N.
Oh, Open Wireless has already started...
shep
these three MAC addresses are responsible for the packet storms: 00:18:f8:ed:a7:dd 00:18:f8:ed:a7:f8 00:18:f8:ed:a7:8f , whenever some other (probably innocent) machine sends an IP multicast packet, those three devcices rapidly forward the packet back to the multicast address on the local network. They hear each other's retransmissions of the packet, so it results in a storm.
David I.
thanks Tim
Russ N.
Mary G.
has entered the room
Chris S.
View paste
 MAC Address
   Prefix         Vendor
   0018F8       Cisco-Linksys LLC
alex i.
shep how do we see our own MAC address
Brad T.
Those mac addresses belong to linksys
Mar 31
3:50 PM
Chris S.
Someone with a linksys wifi card.
alex i.
omigosh its the routers themselves doing the storms
judi
View paste
Quicktime broadcast:
  rtsp://harmony.law.harvard.edu/f2c.sdp
Guest access to the chat:
  https://f2c08.campfirenow.com/1de9e
Frank P.
soembody call Dr. House
Adam M.
stupid smart networks!
Brett G.
Probably those "Wireless N" routers.
Brett G.
It's an "N to N" problem.
Joshua A.
would be interesting to hear how this "openness" makes platform better for development than, say, Symbian or Windows Mobile (both of which are good dev platforms)
Chris S.
A youtube of applications sounds like too much freedom. I want the iPhone App store which will protect me from evil apps.
Chris M.
Chris S. ++
AKMA
Chris, Apple is happy to provide taht for you
Brett G.
Wrestling with carriers?
dwitzel
has entered the room
Chris S.
The only problem with Apple's iApp store is that adult content is verboten.
Joshua A.
tivo works pretty well
Chris S.
and we all know that porn drives technology
Brett G.
I do it on BSD. No problems with the nasty Linux license.
AKMA
Chris S, but you said you wanted a third party to filter out "evil". . . .
Tom M.
pornographers do it on linux (?) :)
judi
apple isn't linux. did he say it was? Apple is bsd.
Adam M.
(wondering if Brett G's comment was a response to Chris S's comment)
Tom M.
he just said 'unix'
Angela S.
has entered the room
Chris S.
Right. Firefox is an evil open source project. The adult industry is Fortune 500 controlled.
Brad T.
Brett hates GPL, that's what he refers to.
alex i.
packet storm issue may be fixable with firmware update? (or is that _caused by_ firmware update?)
Brett G.
GPL is anti-business. It wouldn't be a good idea for Google to use it.
Chris S.
How do I inhibit Sony from embedding a rootkit in my Android phone?
Tree S.
consumer
Mar 31
3:55 PM
Joshua A.
anyone know how much google itself will open source?
judi
chris: just don't install it.
alex i.
Chris communicated with Sony three years ago; he has a business relationship with them under CAN SPAM
Frank P.
who's OEMing the hardware?
Joshua A.
i think htc is making a device
Tree S.
best in show class act handset to be open source probably maybe
Greg E.
has entered the room
Chris S.
Will verizon disable bluetooth on its Android phones, as it did with its Motorola devices?
Russ N.
htc makes everything handheld.
Greg E.
Said the elephant, "I don't understand why everyone runs when away when I walk into the room.
Frank P.
Chris S.
AT&T: you can have any kind of open device on our network, as long as it's a locked iPhone.
Brad T.
Subsidies still crush us
Russ N.
Verizon said in the last year that they plan to have open devices.
Adam
has left the room
Russ N.
BradT: I have been told that they crush the cell companies as well.
Joshua A.
subsidies have their flaws but it sure is nice for most folks to not have to pay for a phone up front
Russ N.
I was in a tech store in Brussels last year, and a 30' long aisle of cellphones was full of people shopping for phones.
Tree S.
the very elderly. i think he's talking to me.
Brett G.
Cell phones are a tough business. Motorola got crushed all by themselves. To the extent that they're spinning off their cell phone business to make the balance sheet look better.
Russ N.
Joshua: you sign the contract, and you ARE paying for the cellphone up front.
Russ N.
Joshua: you're just financing the purchase over the lifetime of the contract. The invisible hand holds no magic wand.
Joshua A.
lots of the real world has cash flow problems -- no cash out of pocket is a big deal
shep
My question: How likely is it that I'll be able to get an android-based phone which would let me make a few changes, recompile, and reload the phone?
Mar 31
4:00 PM
Chris S.
And will flashing it void my warranty?
Russ N.
shep: as long as you accept that the firmware in the radio is locked down and inaccessible, 100% likely.
shep
(could be anywhere from "very unlikel" to "very likely", and I'm very curious)
Brad T.
Looking at it funny voids the warranty
Russ N.
reflashing to a non-supported image *should* lose your warranty.
alex i.
leadership council includes Soros and Wal Mart http://www.newamerica.net/about/leadership_council
Brett G.
But what if you put in software that inadvertently (or even intentionally) caused a wireless meltdown like the one that happened on site this morning?
Richard B.
has entered the room
Tony A.
but shep is actually smart enough TO reprogram the radio and make it better for everyone.
Chris S.
Hopefully the Android networks won't be built on top of $30 linksys routers.
alex i.
Joshua A.
interesting that this auction (with its "open" conditions on the C block) produced no possible new entrant of scale, whereas AWS auction (which had no such conditions) ended with cablecos having near-national footprint
alex i.
should have just done unlicensed. look at 2.4 GHz
Brett G.
Mandatory wholesale still leaves WISPs as sharecroppers
Mike N.
has left the room
Chris S.
It doesn't take poorly configured software to cause the cellular network to meltdown: It just takes an SMS flood (http://www.smsanalysis.org/)
Brett G.
Whobert Heaver?
Mar 31
4:05 PM
Brad T.
Can't have that
Chris S.
Now these churches resell their spectrum to others for $$
dwitzel
Eric Schmidt chairs their board -- http://www.newamerica.net/people/eric_schmidt
Brett G.
"Analog technologies led to interference?" Waitaminnit. It's ALL analog.
Danny O.
Amusing fact: Hoover was against advertising on the airwaves
Ken D.
has left the room
shep
his overall point is correct, but the notion that you can tell whether or not spectrum is being used or not is bogus.
Chris S.
What % of that 70% is the military/government sitting on?
alex i.
shep what about smart radios? cannot they co-use spectrum nicely?
alex i.
share?
JoePlotkin
we need to get a wider constituency for unlicensed principle
Brad T.
If the NAB says it, it must be true.
shep
I have no idea what "smart radios" might mean.
Brad T.
And only about 15% of people get their tv over broadcast
Brett G.
Not true. There have been good results in detection who's using spectrum. Especially if you create an etiquette where the user isn't shy about letting you know.
alex i.
a radio that adjusts the spectrum it uses based on the profile of noise it is hearing
Frank P.
shep: no "CSMA/CD" for the airwaves
Mike W.
smart radios and cognitive radios are two different things
Frank P.
?
shep
The more fundamental problem is that it is not possible to find a reasonable definition for what it means for spectrum to be "used".
Joshua A.
key issue is wireless microphones, which also use the same channels
Brett G.
See my slides on why cognitive radio plus non-exclusive "light" licensing (like driver licensing) is the best option: http://www.brettglass.com/CR/
Nathaniel J.
Brett G.
There's some math there, but I explain it
Brad T.
It's far too rational to get approved, alas.
Ron S.
has entered the room
Russ N.
shep++
Brad T.
Rock bands?
Steven C.
hey, Nathaniel, SciAm isn't here, and we are: http://spectrum.ieee.org/feb07/4892
Russ N.
but on the other hand, if spectrum is split up by modulation type, then it *is* possible to detect the carrier.
Mar 31
4:10 PM
shep
Neither "cognitive radio" nor "smart radio" mean much to me. I've heard both of these buzzwords being used by well-meaning people many times in the last decade.
Russ N.
shep: do they mean SDR?
Brett G.
There are lots of ways to split up the airwaves -- not only based on spectrum. In fact, some of the others are better. See http://www.brettglass.com/ISART/
Mike W.
David I.
shep
no need to "split up". The world between the antennas is remarkably linear.
Frank P.
open wireless for all!
Steven C.
"smart radios" is a general term, the more clearly defined ones are "SDR" and "cognitive radio"
Brett G.
You do need to split up a signal space to disambiguate signals. The paper explains how and why....
shep
radio waves (== photons) pass right through teach other with zero interaction. (Physicists would say that the cross section of a photon when interacting with another photon is zero.)
DirkvanderW
has left the room
marc
has left the room
Brett G.
That's not what radio interference IS. It's not signals "hitting" one another.
Brett G.
It's a receiver being unable to distinguish them.
Russ N.
shep: true enough, my point being that if modulation type is associated with a frequency range then you can detect whether that frequency is being used.
Doc S.
Also Trolltech, which sold for $100 million to Nokia after Android sunk in.
Tree S.
clap on clap off
shep
Brett: and that depends entirely on the receiver itself. There's no way to say objectively whether or not two radio transmissions interfere with each other. You need a receiver. And for any two radio transmissions, it is possible to design a receiver which would demonstrate that interference is occuring, and possible to design a receiver which would demonstrate that both transmissions can be received without any interference. It depends entirely on the reciever.
Chris S.
mobile expert flashmob on the stage.
Mar 31
4:15 PM
Suw C.
Sorry, who is this chap?
shep
BTW, "white space" seems mis-named to me. "Dark space" would make more sense.
Chris S.
Google's telecom guy.
Tree S.
the "made" man
Robert C.
Richard Whitt
Robert C.
He use to be with MCI / WCOM
alex i.
he also wrote pro-competition briefs for MCI
judi
with Google
alex i.
they were very very good
Steven C.
the term "whitespace" comes from graphic design
alex i.
(robert c -- wish to comment on Whitt's FCC submissions) oh don't worry that's snark
Suw C.
thanks. :D (blogging as best i can)
Frank P.
tree... you don't want to go there...
Iz W.
View paste
pre-google: Richard S. Whitt is Vice President for Federal 
Law and Policy at MCI, Inc. In that capacity, Rick is responsible for 
overseeing all of the Company's public policy and regulatory matters 
before the U.S. Federal Communications Commission. In addition, Rick 
assists in developing and coordinating MCI's advocacy before the 
Executive Branch, U.S. Congress, and other governmental bodies, with 
an emphasis on advanced telecommunications services and the Internet. 
Rick recently conceived, authored, and promoted several influential 
MCI white papers advocating a comprehensive new legal framework based 
on IP network 'layers' concepts.

Among other responsibilities, Rick serves as a member of the Board of 
Directors for the United States Internet Service Provider Association 
(USISPA), the Information Technology Association of America (ITAA) 
Internet Division, and the VON Coalition. He also has been an active 
member of the Federal Communications Bar Association (FCBA) for over 
a decade, selected to many leadership positions. Rick has made numerous 
speaking appearances on behalf of MCI at public conferences, forums, 
and panels.

Prior to joining MCI in 1994, Rick practiced telecommunications law as 
an associate attorney in two Washington, D.C. area law firms: Sutherland 
Asbill & Brennan (1990-1994) and Bishop Cook Purcell & Reynolds 
(1988-1990). He graduated cum laude from Georgetown University Law Center 
in 1988, and magna cum laude from James Madison University in 1984.
Chris S.
Googlers have donated $1 mil to federal campaigns in 2006 and 2008: http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/search.aĶ
FACO
has left the room
alex i.
$1 M is what a prez candidate raises in a day. it's spare change
Iz W.
chris s I'm not sure that's the right use of the term "googlers" is it?
Tony A.
googlers is the right term.
Mar 31
4:20 PM
Adam
has entered the room
Iz W.
are you talking about employees, gifts from the corporation itself? not consumer users certainly.
FACO
has entered the room
Frank P.
googlists... ideological adherents
Iz W.
it's not a term I recognize other than "I googled you today"
Chris S.
googler = employee of the big G.
Tree S.
googleizers
Tree S.
trucker hat alert
Frank P.
404 on the .../f2c/ page
Micah S.
a little hard to read his slide
Iz W.
ok we get it let's get to the talk
Tree S.
and ups delivery guy
Brad T.
Lot of free time!
alex i.
total comms/ electronics donations in 2006 http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/induĶ $70,597,552
Frank P.
Tree S.
sorry dsl, whatever it's called
Tree S.
pls tk fstr
Brad T.
Oh, yes, Wyoming!
Iz W.
lol
shep
the original wavelan was from NCR. (which of course was called Lucent later)
Tree S.
fed ex aderall stat
Iz W.
lol!
Brad T.
We have ways of making you cooperative
Tree S.
he'd be ready at 3 am
Mar 31
4:25 PM
Mike W.
Think Brown
Tree S.
omg, lolicopter, mundane psychic
alex i.
president glass is president glass again
Mike W.
Brown to your door
David I.
glass roots?
AKMA
Alex I -- excellent
Brad T.
With a name like Glass, why isn't he using fiber?
Iz W.
does lariat really compete with comcast?
Adam M.
has left the room
Brad T.
Clearly Level 3 is scared of Brett
JoePlotkin
who isnt?
Iz W.
wonder what comcast's strategy to overtake lariat is
Mike W.
like Canarie (Bill?)
Iz W.
"we try harder"?
Chris S.
Amtrak == broadband's one true hope?
Tree S.
oh please do
Brad T.
Howard Hughes bought a whole state.
alex i.
I remember talking to williams about this -- they could have broke open the fiber in rural areas but chose not to
Tree S.
great dinner guest i bet
Iz W.
hijacking is a problem
Heath R.
Amtrak on Rails?
Chris S.
Because they are Satan?
Mike W.
Broadbandits by Om Malik has an entire chapter on this. And don't we all wish Om the best. I hope he is watching or listening.
Tree S.
could you just sign this
Frank P.
pita what? like hummus?
Gregory M.
Brett Glass: Bandwidth sharecropper
JoePlotkin
among this crowd can we agree to us the term "common carraige" instead of net neutrality?
alex i.
Mar 31
4:30 PM
Chris S.
The users are paying you each month for their service.
Brad T.
Not getting paid anything?
Frank P.
No Joe!
alex i.
Parker's appliances are designed to solve this problem by operating as a gateway node, separating the external P2P network from the ISP's network. The node makes all peers of P2P applications local to the ISP, rather than external. This should reduce the distance traffic has to travel.
Iz W.
david approaches the stage
Mike W.
p to pee. Very bad for old men.
Frank P.
...the hook
Richard B.
How about "common carnage?"
Chris S.
As long as you get it from a major corporation.
Tree S.
gong show
Frank P.
common careless
Iz W.
is p2p like pay to play?
alex i.
urinetown
Chris S.
No, we were using $30 hardware for 200 people.
Brad T.
Certainly wouldn't want people actually using the new bandwidth.
Chris S.
$10 per day to use bandwidth in London?
Brad T.
The main goal of new bandwidth is so it can sit unused
Tree S.
start music
Iz W.
no chris, that's at starbucks
Richard B.
P2P: Using other people's software to get other people's content over still other people's bandwidth.
Joshua A.
localizing p2p works well with high bandwidth in last mile and scarcity of backhaul, just the opposite of brett's point here
Brad T.
David ,don't you have musicians in residence?
JoePlotkin
where you stand on p2p depends on your network architecture
Tree S.
oh, i think you will
alex i.
at F2C some time ago, Martin Geddes argued for TOS disclosure like the rules on APR in credit card ads
Tree S.
falls down in heap of exhaustion
Iz W.
yay martin geddes
Russ N.
JoshuaA: but the p2p has to be legal[ized].
Chris S.
Alex: Because most users understand their credit card ToS?
Brad T.
I can pronounce that
Iz W.
actually we're just tough on brett
Russ N.
Otherwise the ISP becomes just another victim of the MafIAA.
JoePlotkin
see the P4P inititiative
Chris S.
How will universal default apply to broadband?
alex i.
alex i.
hey i never said it would be perfect, just better
stage
has entered the room
Frank P.
Chris S.
The problem isn't a lack of clear ToS. Its that the major ISPs have no competition, and treat their customers as the enemy.
Mar 31
4:35 PM
MichaelMaranda
who's on?
alex i.
partly because congress caves in regularly to the cc companies http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008Ķ
Doc S.
Brett, what percentage of your traffic is porn? That's a serious question. I've heard the number is higher than 70%, and that nobody is willing to talk about it. Figger that you're here and might tell us, if you know.
Frank P.
chris: not enemy, sheep for the shearing
Russ N.
Only monopolies get away with treating their customers as the enemy.
Chris S.
And duopolies too.
Danny O.
Brett, is there any competition for Lariat in Wy now?
Frank P.
russ: not enemy, hogs for the slaughter
alex i.
Doc, I know one network aggregator that imitated Akamai failed because its "smart accelerator" was doing mostly porn. no % data tho
David I.
doc that's deeper packet inspection than we want to have
Matt T.
Glenn Strachan
Doc S.
Also, Brett, how much is the bittorrent upstream issue exacerbated (or not) by asymmetry? Is it different on wireless than it is on wired or fibered?
alex i.
glenn rocks
alex i.
brett's not at his PC right now
Doc S.
I'll take my answers off the air. Or the wall.
Matt T.
it should be on the stage monitor
Russ N.
I can't imagine being on a panel and trying to type at the same time. Suw could do it; I couldn't.
Nathaniel J.
has left the room
Tree S.
ubiquitous count: 6
marc
has entered the room
alex i.
macedonia's not as bad as serbia, but there are issues there too!
Tony A.
Tree: are you trying to get a drinking game going?
Iz W.
what are you saying, russ? that your right-hand-only keyboard isn't working?
Tree S.
my drinking days are over. just counting.
Chris S.
Every kid in Macedonia has a linux computer at school: http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS7546509093.html
alex i.
shep wins best camera
Tree S.
i like this guy
Maureen D.
has entered the room
Mar 31
4:40 PM
Iz W.
go glenn! he's like a wireless juggernaut
Tree S.
pineridge could use him
alex i.
corruption the biggest issue
Iz W.
I have an idea - Google should sponsor this stuff. Hey guys, heads up!
Chris S.
Since Hillary's Connect America plan was broken, wan we adopt Macedonia Connects for rural USA instead?
alex i.
google willing to insert text ads into fireside chat?
Richard B.
Wi-Fi's symmetrical, Doc.
Doc S.
David, don't forget Trolltech.
Chris S.
400,000 iphones in China.
Tree S.
i'm serious about pineridge. i'm going to email him.
Suw C.
chumby!
Brad T.
It would be nice if my bedroom window could tell me the weather.
JoePlotkin
open windows?
AKMA
I have a watch that would be cool if it told me the time of day
Jim R.
joePlokin++
Tom M.
use a screen to keep the digital flies out
Russ N.
iz: no, the single-hand keyboard works fine. It's a brain function. Only one output channel works at a time.
Suw C.
i still want a chumby. open hardware++
Jim R.
I have two watches I never know what time it is.
Tom M.
akma -- 24 hour time
Russ N.
chumby ftw
Tony A.
I stopped wearing a watch when my phone started telling me the time of day.
Brad T.
Does anybody really know what time it is?
Chris S.
Will Chinese ISPs be able to block Tibet searches on Chinese Android devices?
Tom M.
i need gps to tell me where I'm at.
alex i.
firewall of china's at the core, not the edge
Tree S.
time's an illusion.
JoePlotkin
Lots of people tell me where to go . . .
Tom M.
later than you think, brad.
Brad T.
No, it's built into google.cn
AKMA
Lunch time, doubly so
Chris R.
has left the room
Jim R.
the real reason they make you turn off your phone on the airplane is so you don't know how late they are
Tree S.
or allusion.
Chris S.
And into skype.cn
alex i.
HHG: when shall we have lunch?
Iz W.
brad, time keeps on slippin' into the future.
Tree S.
future
Tree S.
future
Iz W.
lol
Russ N.
TonyA I have a modern pocket watch. It always has the right time until it runs out of battery.
Brad T.
I, for one, would like to fly like an eagle.
Mar 31
4:45 PM
Chris S.
Because you can't run the same apps on Debian and Redhat, right?
judi
brad: SL
Tom M.
eagle can't see its wristwatch
Russ N.
same apps, yes, same packaging system, only sometimes.
Doc S.
Building on Linux is like building houses on frame construction. It can be anything.
Joshua A.
challenge is getting same app to run across phones with little screens and big screens, keyboards and no keyboards, cameras and not, etc
alex i.
eagle sees _your_ wristwatch from a mile above
JoePlotkin
Brad and Iz: you might owe Steve Miller some royalties
Iz W.
brad: there's a solution!
alex i.
Soc, you would know
Frank P.
when is ride the fire eagle danger day?
alex i.
Doc
Doc S.
When will we open source it, and for whom?
Russ N.
public performance and stuff.
Brad T.
Didn't SUN open up java?
AKMA
oc takes photo of your watch from airplane window
Tree S.
like a rock
AKMA
s/oc/Doc
alex i.
Did MSFT close the java window?
Russ N.
JoshuaA: yes, it's extremely difficult to make an application portable between screen sizes, keyboards, optional I/O.
Tree S.
yeah, if you're in korea
Jim R.
came in through the bathroom window.
Chris S.
2 year contracts for Android devices then, plus 175 termination fees
Russ N.
Yes, Sun opened up Java. GPL3
Doc S.
Tom M.
If I'm on the airplane, I can take the picture myself; why do i need oc?
Adam
so if verizon look like they are going back on their commitments to openness, isn't it up to us, whether the us is Google, or us as consumers, to keep reminding that they made those commitments.
Tree S.
first there is a mountain
Frank P.
mona lisa
Tony A.
AKMA
Then there is no mountain
Russ N.
then there is no mountain
Brad T.
Then there is
alex i.
the mountain came to mohammed
Mike W.
has left the room
Tree S.
then there is
Brad T.
I'd rather be a hammer than a snail
Chris S.
In that big corporations destroy it, and pay trivial royalties
Tom M.
first there is no mountain, then your legs start to hurt.
Frank P.
oxygen auction!!!
Brad T.
We auction spectrum to _assure_ a tragedy.
AKMA
El aguila pasa?
Joshua A.
could spend the whole day debating question of whether spectrum is actually a scarce resource
Tree S.
O2 be free
Doc S.
If we make a bigger commons, can we have a bigger tragedy?
Chris S.
Tough crowd.
Mar 31
4:50 PM
Tree S.
running face recog now
Brad T.
Spectrum rangers!
Robert C.
Do you pay a fee to visit the natl mall?
alex i.
http://www.isp-planet.com/fixed_wireless/pĶ Calabrese: spectrum sold at 10 % of value (but isn't value of spectrum over infinite time an infinite value?)
Gregory M.
right on RIch!
Brad T.
The Ohm Ranger.
Chris S.
Google totally respects the property rights of book publishers though
AKMA
Sitting up in cell towers to watch for wifires
Iz W.
let's get him up onstage in a dunk tank and start throwing balls at the target
shep
actually, it is scarce. But the scarcity is created by the regulation of it.
Frank P.
alex... or does it go to zero?
alex i.
some bands have free licenses. 11, 18 GHz are filling up
Brad T.
Spectrum ownership is a monopoly
Frank P.
AKMA ++
Adam
when have auctions worked well?
alex i.
value = spectrum x time x $ --> increase without bound
Russ N.
alex i: no, nothing gets valued over infinite time.
Danny O.
has entered the room
Iz W.
adam - for ebay's bottom line
Doc S.
I love the Ohm Ranger. Is his reciprocal the Mho Ranger? (Yes, the Mho is a measure of conductivity.)
Russ N.
the valuation on things goes down over time until it's zero.
JoePlotkin
look at the economic value created by putting 2.4 Ghz into peoples hands!
Frank P.
rus ++
alex i.
if the government grants you land indefinitely, the $ loss is theoretically infinite
Frank P.
russ
Joshua A.
don't forget time value of money
Brad T.
I told you whitespace was so rational that it had to be opposed.
shep
I argue it is not a "resource" because there's no way to tell whether or not it is being "used" (in the sense that if its being used it cannot be also used by something else at the same time).
Danny O.
Chris S. -- don't bring fair use into this, otherwise we're all in trouble
Steven C.
the entire Adirondaks has no fees. Nat'l Forests have no fees. Users have boycotted fees in the White Mtns. Fees are the exception, not the rule, on parklands.
Gregory M.
or until it asymptopically approaches zero
Russ N.
alex i: but no, they charge you taxes.
alex i.
you can price a 90 year lease or a 5 year lease but cannot price an indefinite lease
Frank P.
I'll gladly pay you tuesday for an ounce of gold today
Iz W.
cerfing the net
Chris S.
The barons of mountain view.
Gregory M.
Brett Glass broadband sharecropper
alex i.
what price aristocracy? $40 billion
Brad T.
Serfs, Cerfs or Surfs?
Tree S.
hang ten
Jim R.
all of which leaves the consumer out in the cold
Tree S.
little guys
Steven C.
Yosemite=municipal Disneyland. it's a tragedy, hardly a model for anything, let alone spectrum policy
Brad T.
Nobody should get a monopoly
Gregory M.
steven c++
Joshua A.
cellular market areas are actually pretty small
Joshua A.
Chris S.
Roads cost money to build. Spectrum was here already.
Tree S.
and he's off
alex i.
the free spectrum bears are breaking into the parked SUVs of open spectrum
Tree S.
where the f is little bo peep
Jim R.
it my party and I'll rant if I want to.
Russ N.
I support the right to keep and arm free spectrum bears.
Tom M.
they are putting their paws into the beehive of whitespace
AKMA
David has a strong moral fiber
Brad T.
Spectrum is like a range of frequencies for electromagnetism.
Steven C.
actually, it's a lousy model, but a great analogy - Yosemite got the way it did because the consessionaire seduced the "regulator" (Nat'l Park Service)
Mar 31
4:55 PM
Tree S.
bee-wear of the analogies
Mar 31
4:55 PM
alex i.
the unmanaged wilderness is being destroyed and soon none will be able to use it
alex i.
tree +++
Frank P.
pave paradise
Brad T.
I need a bigger hummer.
Tom M.
that is some big beehive1
Iz W.
alex - that is in fact the real issue
Russ N.
The regulated have a concentrated interest in controlling the regulator. Not so the "beneficiaries" of the regulation. They have a diffuse interest.
Tom M.
put up a prking lot
Tree S.
build up a scarcity lot
Chris S.
Comcast just needs to stop using so much of its bandwidth for TV.
Joshua A.
fiber and wireless aren't 100% comparable
Paul H.
has left the room
Brad T.
Smoke those poles!
Russ N.
alex i: come visit me. I'll show you more unregulated wilderness than you can handle.
Heath R.
Support the Nature Conservancy, please
Joshua A.
never stopped many of us
Steven C.
the wilderness can be regulated but unlcensed, just like wi-fi. in fact, that's how much of it is managed today, and it works just fine
Iz W.
cisco's also got something in the oven.
Tree S.
100 bumbles on the pole
alex i.
gordon always knows about it first
Brad T.
Iz has something in the oven, too.
Tom M.
802.11 why?
Tree S.
whoa
Tree S.
i'll drive
Tom M.
nothing sez lovin' like something in the oven.
Doc S.
If Peter Ecclesine is right about 802.11y, it'll be bigger than wi-fi.
Heath R.
And with that, let's end this chat
Tree S.
well one of the wireless panel was certainly wired IMO
Tom M.
what????
Iz W.
lol
Chris M.
has left the room
Greg E.
has left the room
Tom M.
tree +++
Brad T.
Must be pleasant to win.
Suw C.
bribery!!
Tree S.
please do
Brad T.
Ok, now're talking something decent.
Tree S.
2gig!!!
Tree S.
5x2=
Tree S.
orville popcorn?
Mar 31
5:00 PM
Brad T.
Yes, but 23,000,000,000 internet voters prefer it.
alex i.
all of those internet voters were named "rnpual2012bot"
Jim R.
has left the room
Tom M.
one piece of popcorn for each of them, sez orville.
Tree S.
what rough beast?
Tom M.
25-26?
Tony A.
Unrelated to voting... Does anyone want to have a PGP key signing party tonight or tomorrow?
Frank P.
has left the room
Brad T.
We used to vote without fingers?
Brett G.
Purple fingers
alex i.
Brad you've thought long and hard about this
Tree S.
i can look it up?
Brad T.
That's how Cicciolina got elected
Iz W.
I need to make a quick official announcement about a partner conference that promoted F2C in their blog and newsletter. You may be interested in attending the New Communications Forum in Sonoma CA April 22-25. Brochures are on display at the registration table. Thank you!
alex i.
it's voting incubator!
Aleecia M.
has left the room
Tree S.
give one to paynter so he can tell me
Iz W.
Tom M.
AKMA
Give Frank the finger?
Micah S.
i think we should have OSDV speaking at Personal Democracy Forum in June...agree?
Russ N.
Doc S: you know Peter Ecclesine?? Where is he now?
Tree S.
that too
Suw C.
again, it is possible that some problems neither need nor readily submit to a technical solution.
Mar 31
5:05 PM
AKMA
Micah: Agree, emphatically
Iz W.
tree did you know we are sitting right next to each other?
Tree S.
but i meant the brochures which was mooted by the link...
alex i.
agree that digital machines without paper trail will never be trustworthy
JoePlotkin
yes Micah
Tom M.
micah - good thoght
Micah S.
hmm...this could be a great way to curate a conference...
Tree S.
franklin may have mentioned it. but i have no idea of your gender or stats
Micah S.
poll the audience at prior audience
Suw C.
it's the black box problem. if i can't see what goes on inside the box, how do i know my vote's been recorded?
alex i.
++ black box problem
Iz W.
Russ N.
Suw C: because the poll watchers trust the voting system, and they don't trust each other.
Iz W.
it's a nice restaurant
Iz W.
yay google and BT
Iz W.
intermediate yay verizon!
shep
has left the room
Adam
has left the room
Russ N.
Bluetooth?
Heath R.
Ta, all
Tony A.
has left the room
Russ N.
Too many initialisms.
Heath R.
has left the room
Russ N.
enjoy dinner.....
Tree S.
@Iz: concord? i hail from mass.
Micah S.
Sunlight, bigger than Google!
Iz W.
actually I need to update we live in sudbury now
Tree S.
weston
MichaelMaranda
great job
Iz W.
wow tree right next door
JoePlotkin
Drinks!!!!!!
Mar 31
5:10 PM
Iz W.
joe: yeah!
JoePlotkin
none for you tho
Iz W.
yeah, I was sadly just kidding
Tree S.
must go to sleep now. but this made me hungry. 11:10 here in nw france.
MichaelMaranda
have fun everyone - thinking of you in dreary chicago
Jonas B.
has left the room
Michael W.
has left the room
Joshua A.
has left the room
Chris S.
has left the room
Danny O.
has left the room
Tree S.
been a pleasure.
Tree S.
has left the room
Mar 31
5:15 PM
David I.
has entered the room
David I.
the other David Isenberg arrives.
Russ N.
has left the room
Maureen D.
has left the room
David I.
has left the room
Gregory M.
has left the room
Francois L.
has left the room
Michael B.
has left the room
Frank H.
has left the room
alex i.
has left the room
Matt T.
has left the room
Robert C.
has left the room
dwitzel
has left the room
David I.
has entered the room
Mar 31
5:20 PM
Suw C.
has left the room
Joe C.
has left the room
matthew b.
has left the room
AKMA
has left the room
John B.
has left the room
Brad T.
has left the room
Tom M.
has left the room
Micah S.
has left the room
Doc S.
has left the room
JoePlotkin
has left the room
Steven C.
has left the room
Iz W.
has left the room
Mary G.
has left the room
Angela S.
has left the room
Ron S.
has left the room
judi
has left the room
Mar 31
5:25 PM
Danny O.
has left the room
Sascha M.
has left the room
David I.
has left the room
Brett G.
has left the room
FACO
has left the room
stage
has left the room
Mar 31
5:30 PM
Timothy D.
has entered the room
David I.
has left the room
Mar 31
5:35 PM
broadcast
has left the room
Mar 31
5:40 PM
Lars k.
has entered the room
Mar 31
5:50 PM
Timothy D.
has left the room
Mar 31
6:00 PM
Stig H.
has left the room
Lars k.
has left the room
Mar 31
6:10 PM
Richard B.
has left the room
Mar 31
8:35 PM
John J.
has entered the room
Mar 31
8:55 PM
John J.
has left the room
Mar 31
10:35 PM
Tony A.
has entered the room
Mar 31
10:40 PM
Tony A.
has left the room
Robert C.
has entered the room
Robert C.
What? U guys still here? Go home!
Mar 31
10:55 PM
Robert C.
has left the room

Tuesday, April 1

 

F2C Day 1

People in this transcript

  • Aaron Smith
  • Adam
  • Adam Marcus
  • AKMA
  • Aleecia M. McDonald
  • alex ispplanet
  • Andrew
  • Angela Siefer
  • Bill St. Arnaud
  • Brad Templeton
  • Brett Glass
  • Brian Kaminer
  • broadcast
  • Brough Turner
  • Casey L.
  • Chris M
  • Chris Riley
  • Chris Soghoian
  • Danny O'Brien
  • Darcy Gerbarg
  • David Isenberg
  • DirkvanderW
  • Doc Searls
  • dwitzel
  • Ellen M
  • Elvis
  • FACO
  • Francois Lefebvre
  • Frank Hecker
  • Frank P
  • Fred Cat
  • Geoff Daily
  • Greg Elin
  • Gregory Miller
  • Heath Row
  • Iz Walcott Hilborn
  • Izumi Aizu
  • Jim Roberts
  • Joe C
  • JoePlotkin
  • John B
  • John J. Gottsman
  • John St. Julien
  • Jonas Birgersson
  • Joshua Auerbach
  • judi
  • Ken D
  • Ken DiPietro
  • Lars krumme
  • marc
  • Mary G.
  • Matt Turk
  • matthew burton
  • Maureen Davis
  • mbpdx
  • Micah Sifry
  • Michael Birnbaum
  • Michael Steffen
  • Michael Wiik
  • MichaelMaranda
  • Mike Nelson
  • Mike W.
  • Nathaniel James
  • Nicholas Givotovsky
  • Paul Brigner
  • Paul Hyland
  • Ramesh Lakshmi-Ratan
  • Richard Bennett
  • RJA
  • robb tanner
  • Robert C
  • Robin C.
  • Ron Sege
  • Russ Nelson
  • Ryan McHugh
  • Sara Wedeman
  • Sascha Meinrath
  • scrawford
  • Sean Donelan
  • Shawn C.
  • shep
  • stage
  • Steven Cherry
  • Stig Hammond
  • Suw Charman-Anderson
  • Timothy Denton
  • tj
  • Tom Mandel
  • Tony Aiuto
  • Tree Shapiro
  • Will R